3rd edition wish-list

Blockquote Also personally dislike those instances where a wizard of “inspire bot” blocks an entire enemy charge, but kind of like it when it is a dedicated combat character that does it.
So would love to see two different types of individuals. Maybe something like wizards and ‘inspire bots’ go on 25mm bases, and gets a rule similar to warmachines in melee, or any unit who engages them in melee gets +3 to their nerve check (kind off like a ‘Super brutal’) rule. Basically they should avoid combat at all costs. Where as other individuals, on say 30mm bases, are more dedicated close combat guys who don’t have that penalty.

The problem with the individual rule in my opinion is the insane mobility (No arcs, free spin, etc). I like your idea of making weaker individuals like wizards and ASB like warmachines (triple attacks). Here in Norway we have used the Brutal(US) rule against all individuals and it really helps against the most extreme cases.

My dream would be that the individual rule was removed and the nerve of “weak” heroes on reduced to no more than 9/11. And for those heroes that are supposed to be heroic beings. Put them on larger bases (maybe 50mm ) and give them flanks and rear. This way the heroic hero will still be in the game and still powerful, but more puny characters cannot hold an entire horde for 3 turns.

Also, as an added bonus: larger bases for heroic characters means we can give them more exciting bases. like Dioramas. Even putting more than one heroic hero on the base if one likes.

TheEpicDwarf

I just want two handed weapons for the Undead Revenant models, so I don’t have to use the GW grave guard!

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As a new player, I would appreciate it if Mantic would announce if there will be any deleted profiles, changes to basing rules, etc. I am in the process of making some involved bases and want to know if I will regret pouring water effect and permanently locking in models/conversions. I feel safe doing this for skeletons but I am making “reversible” bases for the more exotic units, like the Empire of Dust Worm Riders I am allying in.

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Basing changes will be very minor. Some large creatures will go from 50x50 to 75x75(they didn’t really fit anyway) and chariot bases might change slightly.

If that’s the case, I am fine. Switching up to a 75 is no big deal and I don’t have immediate plans for chariots. Thanks!

My wishlist is mostly for Kingdoms of Men, since that is what i have been working on(by way of historical armies)

first, as i mentioned above, a better purpose for the “Hero” unit in the list. while it is a Hero(Inf) unit, and has Individual and thus is a little more agile, it honestly doesn’t bring a lot to the army. a lot of people like to bring up it’s use as a support or to slow down monsters, but in both roles there isn’t much to advocate for a hero instead of just a Troop of some basic infantry. sure they aren’t quite as agile (but no less so they couldn’t do the job), but they have better attacks and often, nerve. my own suggestion would be to give the “hero” Rally [1] , as a reflection of the fact that they are the unit commanders, champions, or other individuals that the soldiers respect/follow, and their being near and shouting words to encourage valor would improve morale of the troops and encourage them to keep fighting, in much the same way that seeing a flag or standard would. (in fact, in ancient times, when unit and army standards were smaller and harder to see at a distance, it would be the shouts of the unit leaders and champions that were the main way to steady a flagging unit)

i would like to see the option for a one use ranged attack via throwing weapons. to reflect that many armies in history, even if their focus was on sword, spear, and axe, would use throwing weapons (javelins, hand darts, knives, small axes, Pilum, etc) as an opening volley to soften up an enemy formation and make the easier to fight in hand to hand. the KoW Historical list has this for many armies, and it basically is a single use ranged attack, with 10 attacks at Ra 5+, 12" range, for an extra +10pts. applying this to the Shieldwall, Foot Guard, Militia Mob, and possibly the Mounted Sergeants units would let you make some more thematic lists and get some interesting options in game play. (i do not think these should apply to the spear phalanx, pikemen, polearm, and beserker units, as these are supposed to have two handed weapons and thus wouldn’t have much chance to hurl things.)

in terms of new units i would like to see a few options drawn from the historicals list, like Elephants and elephant formations (separate from or even replacing the ‘beast of war’ currently in the list). the historical War Elephant unit has the following stats:
Regiment (3) Sp 6, Me 4+, Ra 5+, De 5+, Att 18, Ne 18/22, and 260pts, with the following specials: Thrown weapons (6 attacks), Crushing Strength [2], Strider, Thunderous Charge [2], 50x100mm base, Height 4. with the option to replace the thrown weapons (range 12") with bows (6 attacks, 18" range) for free.
some version of that should be viable in fantasy as well, especially given that you are not limited to just elephants fluff wise.
if this is used alongside the “beast of war” i would hope that unit would get a shift to be a ‘titan’ class unit, with suitable boost in stats.

another unit i’d love to see come over from historical is the Musician. Rally [2] but no combat ability is useful, and very thematic for human armies, as musical instruments (whether drums, trumpets, flutes, and so on) were the staple for sending orders and rallying troops before the advent of radio, as well as establishing the pace for movement on and off the battlefield.

one non-historical unit that might be fun to see, based off their appearance in Vanguard, would be ogre mercenaries. probably best done as a ‘limit one’ variety of unit for kingdoms of men, being able to take a large infantry unit would make for some interesting options. whether these would be just standard Ogre Warriors, or whether the option for Shooters or even Boomers would be there (or perhaps some KoM specific variety the way the Ogre Palace Guards are for Basilea) would depend on space and balance considerations.

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Question:
Have we received any other hints/pointers as to who the new armies will be?
The have confirmed North kin, and there seems to be a strong indication towards Ophidians (good undead?)

But have there been any mentions/hints of Twilight Kin? I really hope they get some love

Twilight Kin will be in Armies of Pannithor (the 2nd book).

Undead- I would love to see some new units.
A Banshee. Maybe something like Individual fly breath attack.

where have you seen indications of this? because all i’ve seen are people on social media saying that, never anything official.

and the Undead list we have is technically Ophidian, by the fluff. at most there is hints in said fluff that Ophidian armies often have both undead and mortals in them, in that they raise the dead to fight alongside the living. but that can easily be accomplished with the Allies rules and Kingdoms of Men.

besides, aside from the neo-transylvanian feel seen in the undead army’s models, do we even know what Ophidia looks like?

The ally rules wouldn’t be perfect for Ophidia due to the Inspiring and force determination factors, unless I am mistaken. Also, as Mantic has been promoting (or debuting) their more original factions recently, Ophidia with their mix of undead and living forces isn’t too far beyond the realm of possibility

True, but still no ‘strong indication’.

That’s fair, but I’d say it is more than even odds. New and original factions (and lore expansion) is in Mantic’s best interest, after all :slight_smile:

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I won’t complain about another undead faction, that I can build with my existing models. So I hope you’re right.

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On the whole, I’d like as little to change as possible core rules-wise. I expect the various changes from COK19 will be integrated or revised again, and am bracing for measured points changes across the factions. Fly, for example, was clearly undercosted or overpowered in 2E, and suspect Mantic will nerf it in some way, particularly if the emphasis is on infantry again.

I didn’t think I had much of a personal wishlist, but I guess there are a couple things:

  • Tune down the power of infamous named characters. I really dislike ‘special characters’ in army games - to me they’re a skirmish thing (WarmaHordes for example), where the narrative can support them better or something - and find OP ones really grating. I applaud Mantic for killing Herja, who should not have been present in every Varangrr list and yet somehow was. Named characters should be slightly overcosted and do something unique, they should not be the Obviously Best units in their faction. Looking quite specifically at Eckter, Grokagamok and (worst of all) Ba’su’su. These characters are so good for their points that they invalidate other options - in the case of Eckter and Grok (why ever take a Warlord if Grok exists?) - or border on broken yet exist in multiple factions in Ba’su’s case. This goes against KOW’s internal balance and is sad.

[Brakki Barka, Lady Ilona and Siren form a second tier of Really Quite Great characters that can be quite painful to face, but I feel like they require their formations to be really nasty or are fairly chunky points-wise for what they do. Siren is mostly included for being so ubiquitous. It also occurs to me that some of the power of these named characters is from abusing the movement powers of the Individual rule - certainly in the case of Ba’s, Barka, Ilona and probably Eckter too.]

  • Make Ogres good. It’s shocking that I don’t play Ogres in KOW - I love ‘big guy’ armies and they are so so so easy to make with all the great large infantry on the market - but to quote Alex Chaves, “Ogres are a trap.” Maybe toning down flying will be enough to give the big lugs a leg up? I literally have an Ogre army in a box waiting for an excuse.
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Hi

Sorry I think 'strong indication was the wrong words to use.
More like: Social media wishlisting

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Possible port Nightstalkers units of Banshees, Spectres, Phantoms to Undead also.
Those are iconic undead, at least in name.

not that i can see. Inspiring and Very Inspiring work on your side whether allied or main force. unit type specific inspiring might have issues but that is less of a concern given that they are unit specific so won’t necessarily apply to all of your main force either.
as far as Force Determination goes, kingdoms of Men is a Neutral faction so it can easily ally with an evil one like undead, and since army building is centered around the core infantry and cavalry units rather than specific force list slots like some other games, you can easily build a “mini army” of whatever ally you want into the 25% you can use for allies. you might have to juggle your choices a bit since you literally can’t just take everything, but you should be able to build a fairly useful mix if you specialize.

It is even better than that.

The one named necromancer for undead (jarvis if memory serves, who is an ophidian) makes your undead count as good for the purposes of allies.
Meaning you could even ally in basileans with your undead if you want!
Unless they changed that

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Maybe they are making a " good" ( or at least neutral) Undead army without the special character.