Advice on 1250 Points starter armies

Hi folks,

i’m just playing with the idea of painting two small armies that I can use to play a round of KoW with people. The idea is to use 15mm or 10mm models, but I want to keep the footprint of the game the same, i.e.: a regiment is as big as a regiment in 28mm - but I use 2 or 3 times as many models on the base :blush: A forest is as big as in the 28mm game - but there are 4 times as many trees on it.

I thought I would take the classic conflict orcs / dwarves, that always works and I’m up for the models. Here’s what I was thinking:

    1. Ca 10% magical items - so I want to have about 1100 points of troops.
    1. It should be a fantasy game, so use of fantastic elements is desired and at least one must be in every army.
    1. The lists should be reasonably balanced for fun.

Which is a bit of a problem: I know the KoW rules only rudimentary from the first edition and I am currently reading third edition, so I would be glad to get some feedback if these are reasonable lists that can be played well against each other or if something doesn’t fit at all, if the game just needs more magic (then I would probably go up to 1500), etc. pp

Orcs
Ax Horde, Orcish Skullpole - 220
Greatax Regiment, Orcish Skullpole - 155
Gore Rider Regiment - 190
Trolls Regiment - 115
Giant - 225
War Drum - 80
Krudger - 95
Godspeaker - 70

One Horde, three regiments and trolls and giant are providing fantastical elements. Cav is present on the table. I just like the idea of a War Drum but I could imagine giving it up for a second shaman.

Dwarfs
Ironclad Regiment - 110
Ironclad Regiment - 110
Ironguard Regiment - 150
Ironwatch Crossbows Regiment - 135
Sharpshooters Troop - 100
Jarrun Bombard - 110
Greater Earth Elemental - 230
Dwarf Lord - 105
Stone Priest - 90

I didn’t want to use a dwarven horde and rather go for regiments here. Maybe just to create some contrast to the orcish army. At the same time I didn’t want to use too much ranged troops (but I could imagine doing just one Ironclad Regiment and using a second Ironwatch Regiment, but I’d maybe have to take something else instead of the sharpshooters then). The Greater Earth Elemental is a must have because I just love the idea of an ancient dwarven statue that supports it’s buddies on the battle field. However, this could become a Steel Behemoth if I do the Ironclad > Irowatch swap.
At the moment, we have four regiments, a small shooting troop, one piece of artillery and a magical element as well as two heroes.

So now the question remains: Do these two armies make sense? Can they be played together without one or the other player just being crushed immediately? Is KoW played with more heroes?

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Hi there! What a fun idea to use KoW in 10mm in this way. It should definately work!

That said, I think the dwarf army has a bit of a disadvantage compared to the orc army. This is because movement is extremely important in KoW and dwarves aren’t that good in it. (their increased defense makes more than up for that)

This means that dwaves need to have either ranged advantage or cavalry in order to work. I’m not sure if two units of shooters and one piece of artillery is enough for either.

Dwarves do have some wonderfull tools, however. Dwarven brock riders are more than decent cavalry instead. The stone priest with surge has great synergy with the greater earth elemental. Inspiring talisman is great on him. You might want to add a horde of earth elementals instead of a regiment of dwarves.

The dwarven lord is quite powerful, but his lack of movement is this main disadvantage. Usually solved by giving him the wings of honeymaze; the alternative is mounting him on a large beast. The king on large beast is both a great model opportunity and a powerhouse on the battlefield.

The final option you might want to look into is the steel behemoth. Especially on 15mm scale, the modeling opportunities are golden! A truly massive construction of iron steamworks, great!

Good luck!

~Vince

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Thanks for the feedback, that’s definitely something to work on. Going into the think-tank again I came up with an idea, that keeps at least three ranged aspect and adds cavalry. That’s 1150 points in total, so magical items could be used to increase speed (wings, +1 speed-banner, etc).

Ironguard Regiment - 150
Ironwatch Crossbows Regiment - 135
Ironwatch Crossbows Regiment - 135
Berserker Brock Riders Regiment - 195
Jarrun Bombard - 110
Greater Earth Elemental - 230
Dwarven Lord -105
Stone Priest - 90

and 100 points of magical items

Depends what you are going for. If it’s for demos I recommend small armies (500 points) that avoid complex rules to get the basics down.
Then move to a larger battle after that, if the new player is keen.

I would recommend avoiding more complex rules like surge.

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The Dwarves look pretty good, but I’ve never found that Ironwatch en-masse live up to their potential enough to justify the expense at low point levels. I really want them to, I love the concept of massed ranks of Crossbow dwarfs, but every time I take them they never seem to work out, especially against hordes of infantry.

If you want to keep the same flavor on a more combat-effective unit, you can take a regiment of Shieldbreakers with Throwing Mastiffs (one turn of basically better shooting output with a shorter range) or the Warbow of Kaba (1 shot a turn, but hitting on 4’s with the ability to move and shoot at no penalty). It makes the unit more like wannabe rangers.

I also think your list would go VERY well in Free Dwarfs, if you wanted to switch over. No Ironguard, but you get access to non-irregular Ranger regiments and straight-up better Ironwatch, Jarrun Bombards, and Stone Priests (Martyr’s Prayer is really good).

Giving the crossbows hammers to make them rangers is not a bad idea.

Depends what you are going for. If it’s for demos I recommend small armies (500 points) that avoid complex rules to get the basics down. Then move to a larger battle after that, if the new player is keen.

The people with whom I play are all pretty experienced in wargaming, currently we play Malifaux, WarmaHordes, the sorts. So, a lot of complicated rules are quite all right for my player base :slight_smile: It’s just that I need a new project to explore new painting grounds, therefore, I will do the miniatures myself and invite them for beer and gaming :wink:

The Dwarves look pretty good, but I’ve never found that Ironwatch en-masse live up to their potential enough to justify the expense at low point levels. I really want them to, I love the concept of massed ranks of Crossbow dwarfs, but every time I take them they never seem to work out, especially against hordes of infantry.

If you want to keep the same flavor on a more combat-effective unit, you can take a regiment of Shieldbreakers with Throwing Mastiffs (one turn of basically better shooting output with a shorter range) or the Warbow of Kaba (1 shot a turn, but hitting on 4’s with the ability to move and shoot at no penalty). It makes the unit more like wannabe rangers.

Thanks for the advice - will have a look at the thrown mastiffs and the possibility of shield-breakers :+1:

I also think your list would go VERY well in Free Dwarfs, if you wanted to switch over. No Ironguard, but you get access to non-irregular Ranger regiments and straight-up better Ironwatch, Jarrun Bombards, and Stone Priests (Martyr’s Prayer is really good).

Is that one of the lists in the supplement book? If so, it’s on the “to buy list” and I will give it a try as soon as it’s arriving at my place :slight_smile: