Command Orders with specific requirements

Kings of War Rules Discussion
1

Apart from traits there are command orders needing units to do something or to do not.

Are they still legitimate targets for Command orders before they meet the requirements? The rules for Command Orders are rather short, especially if you consider how strong their effects change the normal rules. So there is of course no mentioning of that.

But I would not know why a unit shouldn’t be able to get the Command. Of course, if it doesn’t fulfill the requirements (like having not moved, being not in combat,…) at end of the movement phase, they would not benefit from the command.

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2

There are various commands that grant special rules or bonuses to units given specific movement orders and generally these are phrased reasonably well.

Some examples:

Bourne by Angels - The unit gains the Fly special rule while executing an Advance! or At the Double! movement order.

Brace for Impact - Unless the unit moves At the Double! or Charges this Turn, until the start of its next Turn, the unit increases its De by one (e.g. 4+ becomes 5+) while being targeting by any attacks in its front facing.

Marching Orders - When this unit is issued an At the Double! order, it can make one additional pivot during the move.

Tactical Retreat - If the unit performs a Back! order, it may move up to its Sp value, but may not make any pivots. This order may not be issued to a unit carrying a Loot Counter.

Nimble Feet - The unit cannot be issued a Charge! order this Turn, but gains +n Sp, where n is the number of successful dice rolled to issue this order.

Bear Traps - The target unit must have received or be given a Halt! order this Turn and cannot already be Engaged. Until its next Turn, enemy units charging this unit each suffer D6 damage after making contact and moved to their final position. Damage taken this way does not trigger a Nerve test.

The last is the only one which forces you to give a specific Movement order to a unit after you have given them the command; while the penultimate one prevents that unit being given a certain command.

With the others, there’s no limit on what orders are given, but they only gain the benefit with certain ones.

-–

There is one slightly odd command which doesn’t limit who it can be given to, but would be helpful if it was clarified whether it can only be given to units with Shambling.

Dance of Death - The unit loses the Shambling rule for this Turn. Infantry units also gain the Pathfinder rule this Turn.

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3

There has never been a broader explanation of Command Orders. Why are they there, who wanted them, who needed them, how are they supposed to work.

And the system is far, really far away from being balanced. If they are supposed to benefit units, there should be clearly stated in which cases and at what timing you are allowed to try to give them to units.

Some are so hard to get (Chilling Presence from Northern Alliance needs to 5+ to be successful for example), others would force you to risk quite a lot, just for having a chance to Command them.

If you can explain me where exactly and without a doubt is explained if

“Units involved in a Combat with multiple Engaged friendly units only.”

is only allowed to be used on units already in combat with another unit, or if it only works then, I would be glad.

But I need something stating it clearly.

Command Orders aren’t treated the right way if you consider how strong they impact the game and especially the most important part of the game - the movement phase.

And I don’t understand why it seems to happen that people working on different armies use different descriptions, but apparently wanted to describe the same timing. There needs to be a supervisor for the command orders, being responsible for checking that they use the same definition or timings if they want them to work similar…

4

You seem to have something in mind but aren’t describing a situation. What’s the situation you aren’t clear on? The specific command orders give clarity on when they can’t or can be used. Overall commands are pretty clear on when they go off. Balanced, not all armies are balanced in command orders. That’s true.

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5

I don’t see a clear statement what

Units involved in a Combat with other Engaged friendly units only.

means. Where is the clear statement?

It could mean

a) it can be used/issued on units only, which are in combat together with a friendly unit at that timing.. But what happens if the other unit withdraws from combat after the command was successful?

b) it only works if there are two units fighting against one enemy, no matter if they were already engaged before.

Command Orders are used on friendly units unless specified otherwise and sometimes they can only be used on friendly units with a specific Trait.

That’s the only description. Not that helpful, especially because it doesn’t mention much. The only further explanation is that units which moved at the double may not use a shooting attack like Throwing mastiffs, but that’s kind of obvious.

6

What commands are you specifically referring to where the command would come into play if the unit withdraws after engaged with friendly unit?

Commands dictate when they can and cannot be used. I’m sorry I’m having a hard time finding what instance you’re talking about. Can you give me the command(s) in question and situation. I’m a “visual” person.

7

Right here, 2 units being engaged it’s “Pack Attack” from Xirkaali. But it shouldn’t matter which it is, the rules should just be offering no interpretation or any questions.

And I statet the requirements anyways. No deep diving should be necessary.

8

As far as I know, there’s no fixed timing for commands. This makes many of them feel really confusing, both in when they should be issued and when they actually resolve.

9

Yes, if you give a command saying “units charging this turn” and then charge the unit in, the command will still work. When in the combat phase (which is when most commands have their effect) the requirement of having needed to charged will be fulfilled in hindsight.

10

Commands are always issued in the Movement phase, regardless of when the benefit of the Command itself might get used.

“Orders are issued by your Commanders (that is, either a Champion or a Warlord) during your Movement Phase. At any point in the Movement Phase, each Commander can attempt to issue one Command Order per Turn …”

As far as when they take effect, it will either be in a specific Phase, for the whole turn or a period stated in the Command

“The effects of Orders only last for the phase they are applicable in that Turn, or the end of that player’s Turn, unless specified otherwise.”

Note that this is slightly different to how Auras function - which require you to be covered by it in the specific phase in which any special rule granted by the Aura would take effect.

11

The question was about the specific timing between issuing a command and resolving it.

Pack Attack: Units involved in a Combat with multiple Engaged friendly units only. The unit gains the Brutal (2) special rule.

It’s issued in the Movement phase, sure, but that’s all that was stated.

Here’s the question: You issue a command to a unit that meets the requirements - meaning two friendly units are engaged in combat. In that same Movement phase, one of those friendly units withdraws from combat, which means the requirements are no longer met.

When is the command resolved in that case? Immediately after it’s issued (meaning it still gains Brutal 2 even if a unit later withdraws), or later, like in the Combat phase?

The same goes for Strider for Forces of Nature:

Nature Trails: Units with the Herd or Elemental Trait only. The unit gains the Strider special rule.

  1. If you issue that command BEFORE declaring a charge, it’s clear.

  2. If you issue it DURING charge movement, it probably still works.

  3. If you issue it AFTER the charge… what happens then? Hindered is resolved in the Combat phase, not Movement.

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12

You can’t issue a command mid-charge.

If the unit didn’t have strider when it would have been hindered and been of use during the charge, getting it later doesn’t help not being hindered.

13

Thank you.

I don’t see why you couldn’t issue a Command Order DURING a charge. It should probably be clarified in an FAQ, but as written, charges occur during the Movement Phase, and the rule states: “At any point in the Movement Phase, each Commander can attempt to issue one Command Order per Turn”

And the current FAQ specifically states that you can issue an order at any point of unit movement.

Q: At any point in the Movement Phase, each Commander can attempt to issue one Command Order. This can be read as allowing a command while in the middle of any unit’smove order. Also, when I attempt to issue a command order, do I have to do all thec ommand orders at the same time?

A: You can issue a Command Order at any point during a unit’s move. This includes both the units issuing or receiving the order. Each commander is free to separately issue a command during the phase when they want. They don’t all have to issue commands at the same time.

That said, the OP’s original question was specifically about Pack Attack: How is it resolved if you issue the order, but a unit withdraws later in the phase?

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14

Oh, I forgot we ruled that in the FAQ. OK, so you can do it mid-charge then. The rest of the answer still stands though!

For Pack attack specifically, the point is that you get Brutal because the other unit is alongside you and also fighting. If it walks away, you don’t then get it. It would be a waste of a command.

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15

Thank you.

This means the Pack Attack effect resolves during combat for that unit. Noted.

I think it’s worth clarifying the command’s wording in the future, as it’s currently quite vague about when the effect actually resolves.

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16

It seems like it simply resolves when you are about to make use of it.

17

Like I said- the rules for Commands are rather short.

And don’t mention any circumstances they could lost. As the normal rules still apply, it is clear that a unit which used At the Double is not allowed to use a shooting attack from a Command.

But other than that?

Some more explanations to a new aspect with such an impact would have been nice .

19

It’s not so simple.

Thank you to Matt for answering.

The question is whether the sentence “Units involved in a Combat with multiple Engaged friendly units only” is a condition required to issue the command, or a condition that applies when resolving the order itself.

According to the rules:

Command Orders are used on friendly units unless specified otherwise and sometimes they can only be used on friendly units with a specific Trait.

This means the procedure could be:

  1. Pick a command.

  2. Check range.

  3. Check conditions - such as “Units with the Kindred Trait only,” “Infantry and Large Infantry units only,” or “Units involved in a Combat with multiple Engaged friendly units only.”

  4. Resolve the command - e.g., “The unit gains the Fly special rule while executing an Advance! or At the Double! movement order” or “The unit gains the Brutal (2) special rule.”

Here, the first sentence is the prerequisite for issuing the order, and the second sentence is the effect granted by the command.

Units with the Kindred Trait only. The unit may make a ranged attack with the following profile (12", Att: 6) and this hits on a 3+ regardless of modifiers.

Infantry and Large Infantry units only. The unit gains the Fly special rule while executing an Advance! or At the Double! movement order.

Units involved in a Combat with multiple Engaged friendly units only. The unit gains the Brutal (2) special rule.

OR, in this case, the sequence is:

  1. Pick a command.

  2. Check range.

  3. Resolve the command as: “Units involved in a Combat with multiple Engaged friendly units gain the Brutal (2) special rule.”

Under this second interpretation, you can issue the command to any unit during the Movement Phase, but the effect will only apply during the Combat Phase if the conditions are met at that time.

But now, thanks to Matt’s response, we know the correct interpretation.

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20

Yes, the part about being able to waste a command does imply that you can cast it on whoever you like but the conditions still need to match when you are going to actually use it. I know it’s a simplistic way or stating it, but it’s probably correct most of the time. :smiley: