Does Vanguard need streamlining?

Yes, it feels to me like undead are over-powered. I’ve just painted up my Dungeon saga minis, so will give them a go and find out!

Their rule could just become “always get to make a nerve check whilst there is a leader in play”

Over-powered? They are just ‘undead’, they never die. :wink:

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:joy:

As I usually play goblins the idea of something survivng just one fight appeals :joy:

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And figuring out a way to clean up token-mess would be good too. Many games devolve into a massive scrum in the center of the map, and keeping track of which figures have which tokens on them… Not easy!

I too am not in love with the fatigue rules. They did feel clunky and hard to remember or keep straight.

But Vanguard was really fun. Don’t change too much (no cubes - I love my weird, bespoke fantasy terrain!)

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Could have an option of an app for tracking status (or a separate sheet)? I’d probably still use tokens but others might prefer these other options?

One other thing, while I am at it, just get rid of hindered charge. If you can run there, it’s a charge. Add in that if you start in the front arc you can only engage the front arc and that simplifies charging with minimal loss of nuance and tactics.

yeah starting in the front and walking around to back to strike is silly.

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Note that if you “walk around the back”, you don’t get a rear attack bonus. The rear attack bonus is only if you start your activation in their rear arc.

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Yeah that needs simplifying then. I’ve read the rules through a billion times and I can’t even remember reading that. Just say if you start in the front you have to charge the front. Much simpler.

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Apologies if I am sounding defensive - I didn’t write the book (but did put a lot of work into the v1.1 update). But the one and only place that it talks about a rear attack bonus starts by saying you have to start with your base in the rear arc.
Screenshot from 2021-11-09 11-20-13

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Excellent! Walking round the back isn’t something I do anyway (I try to play the spirit of the rules!) Good that it’s covered! Personally I’d still get rid of hindered charges anyway, but it’s not like I think they ruin the game. The idea makes sense but it often feels a little over complicated.

In that case thank you and well done. The updated rules are much easier to read and clearer. Definetly going in theright direction.
I still think some rules need more streamlining than rewriting.

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Salem, then what does the “if in the rear arc anyway” part mean? I assume that is what makes many players add the +1 crushing.

it means when there isn’t a “move to engage”. Without it, on subsequent rounds of being in the rear arc you would no longer get the +1 CS, because you wouldn’t be declaring a move to engage because you were already engaged, so not moving.

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Seconding this!

This whole thread is finding ways to improve the game, whcih makes it necessarilly slightly negative in tone. The V1.1 is still great though as is the game in general!

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I haven’t got the v1.1. Having spent out on the Kickstarter and received two books, I’m loathe to pay money for something that has a tiny amount of new material in it (bought Ice and Iron at the time). So that explains why I hadn’t seen that rule!
I appreciate the attempt to make the rear bonus conditional but I still think rules like that are complications that shouldn’t be there. Vanguard rules be like ‘if this and this but not this, then do this but only if the moon is in Saggitarius and not this’ (I exagerate for comic effect obvs)

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Just thought of another “streamlining” that I think should apply…

If I shoot someone knocked down then the current rules allow them a nerve test, which they can pass and still stay knocked down. If they’re knocked down I think that should just be them dead! This is then consistent with melee, where there is no nerve test if the model is already knocked down. Again this streamlines things by just making the rule - if you are knocked down then no nerve checks.

It also (I feel) makes more sense thematically. The warrior has just been knocked down and has no wounds left, so she is pretty badly injured. By force of will she is keeping herself on the battlefield when a volley of arrows wounds her further - she ain’t getting up!

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This is also a huge issue with Undead … which you can’t kill at all by shooting as long as they’re in their leader bubble :wink:

They may need a rebalancing with a change like that, or not, not sure, didn’t play enough to really say.

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Just like Boromir?

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Exactly like Boromir :joy:

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That’s where power could enable a heroic action - say only one per phase, that would allow a nerve test which if passed restores the warrior to one wound and allows a move or charge or melee or something - to create that Boromir moment?

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