yea, all fair points! my main thing I don’t want to lose is my twin dragons. other than that most things are maleable, and I am planning on using the mega army as a start. What would you get rid of to bring more chaff?
How do salamander primes fair? I may want to run a horde of them, but I am torn on two handed weapons or not.
It’s a solid, very smashy start. Here’s where I would take it:
Salamander Ceremonial Guard (Horde) 265
Tyrants (Horde) 240
– Sir Jesse’s Boots of Striding 15
Ancients* (Regiment) 185
Rhinosaur Cavalry (Regiment) 150
Rhinosaur Cavalry (Regiment) 150
Salamander Primes (Regiment) 135
Phoenix 195
~
Clan Lord on Fire Drake 290
– Blessing of the Gods 20
Rakawas, the Pale Rider [1] 245
Mage-Priest 90
– Heal (3) OR Hex (3) OR Scorched Earth (2)
2000
Hope that helps! If you’re looking for more invasive changes, I’d swap the Rhino regs here for Scorchwing regs, then use the points to give the Tyrants +1 to hit and go with Heal + Shroud on the Mage-Priest. Adds shooting, better chaff, really amps up the Tyrants, and Heal (10) is nice to keep pushing your expensive lizard hammers forward.
Primes on their own are just OK. They’re a solid unit that’s fairly tough and does some damage, but they’ve got some pretty stiff competition: Ceremonial Guard hit quite a bit harder and are really good against cavalry, Tyrants are incredible hammers, Rhinosaurs are a great tough hammer. I’ve found they work well…
I would probably run something like this, but then I do really like the formation, so take it with a grain of salt
Salamander Ceremonial Guard (Horde) 265
Tyrants (Horde) 240
The Whispering Scales [1] (Formation) 0
Salamander Primes (F) (Regiment) 145
Salamander Primes (F) (Regiment) 145
Battle-Captain (F) 70
Rakawas, the Pale Rider [1] 245
Clan Lord on Fire Drake 290
-Brew of Sharpness 35
Ancients (Troop) 120*
Rhinosaur Cavalry (Horde) 250
Phoenix 195
-------------------------
Total Unit Strength: 20
Total Units: 10
Target Points: 2300
Core (Target%): 2000 (87.0%)
I do think the formation has given Primes a reason to exist in Salamanders (in Nature the horde can serve the traditional anvil role). I dig your list, tho again would take Elite on the CLoFD and use the savings to give the Tyrants Jesse’s boots.
EDIT: Actually Chant of Hate is mathematically better on the CLoFD, so that.
EDIT2: Actually whatever, take the one you want, the math plays out either way. I choose Vicious because it’s cooler.
Elite and Vicious are mathematically identical outside of specific interactions with dice rolls like Effigy of Fire, what makes you say CoH is better?
(I just wrote a huge thing explaining my logic and the math behind it … then once I ran the math I found it was in fact mathematically identical)
You know what, I’ll finally concede the point. I still want to say that Vicious is situationally better because KOW has more ways to apply negatives to hit than it does to wound (which in fact have loads of bonuses thanks to CS/TC), but I suspect the math will continue to equal out because both hitting and damaging happens and I think of the two parts apart from each other.
Hahaha yep, I had a very similar journey from “surely vicious is better if you’re hitting on 6’s and wounding on 2’s” to “each dice roll reduces your successes multiplicatively, and order of operations in a series of multiplications doesn’t matter.” Takes some of the mystique out of it I guess, but does help quick analysis. Mostly now I just multiply the number of attacks by seven sixths.
yea, it is dissapointing how little the primes stack up. I like this list though, and I am only sad my mega army purchase won’t get me too far in this list. Still, I got a long way to build up to something like this, and I like it quite a bit. my question is though, is to have shields or to have two handers at the regiment level.
Quite a different idea for the rhino cav too, not something I would have thought of! Still, a good idea, and I think I may use it in the future. I am intrueged by the lack of brew of sharpness on the CLoFD, as I did the math and it seemed sharpness was better for melee than elite!
@Luke
I like this list as well. no magic, but the formation wasnt something I looked at too much. Also, seems to lack the mage. Still, this would go a long way to maximizing my purchase of the mega army. only critique is that it is a bit over my 2k ideal, but that may just be the warhammer in me talking.
Also, another big question… how many spells can the base mage priest cast a turn?
I prefer shields on the Prime regiments because I just want them to stay alive and do scenario things. Salamanders get access to some really good damage dealers, so my mentality is usually to specialize - let the hammers do the killing. As for the CLoFD, Sharpness is indeed a better value melee upgrade, but Elite (or Vicious) also apply to the pretty good ranged attack! Dragons in KoW are really vulnerable once they commit to a fight, so they often spend a lot of time dancing around, using the possibility of a charge to control your opponent’s movement. Situationally, it’s great to do some shooting while you’re jockeying for position, and Elite can help pick up light chaff pieces in one attack while still providing a benefit in melee.
What do you mean by your “2k ideal”?
Spellcasters can only cast one spell (or other ranged attack) per turn unless they have a special rule that specifically allows it, like the Amulet of the Fireheart.
Meant 2k ideal like the army points I was going for, sorry!
And fair points on both the primes and the upgrades. I can play around with both upgrades on my CLoFD, just to see what is better in the future. If I like the blessings then I would join that bandwagon lol.
Also, good point on the primes. Still, does our grinding infantry rely more on nerve or defense values? Like, should I be worried about how most of my army won’t have nerve in the 20’s, and how the primes are still fairly low nerve as a regiment?
Still gotta play a game yet, so these are all questions that could just be answered in game.
Oh it is a 2k list, I just forgot to change the default maximum!
As for defense vs nerve, it’s a bit of both. A 14/16 Def5 regiment isn’t HARD to kill, but KoW is a piece trading game - to kill your Prime regiment, they have to invest something that hits pretty hard, which leaves it open to being attacked. It’s a pretty lethal game, so things will die, it just comes down to what resources you have to put towards it.
A common adage among KoW players is “everything is chaff” which is really about feeding absolutely anything into the meat grinder if it helps you win. Knowing what will help you win takes experience, but it’s helpful not to get to attached to ANYTHING.
Oh no, I get attached to my power pieces fairly easily. Still, that is a valuable lesson for me to learn lol.
Yea, I plan on basing each prime sepretly, so I may play around with them at regiment or horde level, especially as I build my forces.
Now, how are unblooded?
Just gotta wait on my armies now, and I am pretty excited to get started painting these guys. May jump into corsairs later on as well, but do far there is a plethora of options I am interested in
Edit: think I got my models today
Edit 2: built my first ten models of my primes(in part. I want to paint them properly)
Gotta say, I love the sculpt. Mold lines are annoying, but I still like the model. I am really tempted to go two handed for these bad boys, just to have some model variety.
Now, I am struggling to decide. I originally was going to do 20 salamanders as primes, 20 as ancients and 20 as unblooded, but I don’t know right now. A horde of 40 primes is calling my name…
Okay, still building my mega box army, but I figured why not make another list. This time to create a majority rhino and Calvary list
Cavalry [1985 / 2000 (15Remaining)]
~ List Valid ~
Salamanders [1985]
I can replace the horde for another rhino cav or more lancers. Just a question though; how important is a mage?
I dig it, nice chunky list. I still would swap blessing on the Lancers and sharpness on the CLOFD, as it helps the Lancers do anything and the Fire Drake benefits on the shooting as well. Then put the rest of the points into a real item on the Primes instead of effigy (I think my vote is Aegis).
If you want to get spicy with more rhinos, you could forgo the anvil, strip the list of all those fixer items and embrace the lizard heavy cav theme:
Rhinosaur Cavalry (Horde) 250
Rhinosaur Cavalry (Horde) 250
Rhinosaur Cavalry (Horde) 250
Kaisenor Lancers (Troop) 125
Kaisenor Lancers (Troop) 125
Scorchwings* (Regiment) 120
Scorchwings* (Regiment) 120
Phoenix 195
Clan Lord on Fire Drake 290
– Blessing of the Gods 20
Rakawas, the Pale Rider [1] 245
~1990 ~
Basically chaff/scenario pieces combined with hammers and a bunch of short- to mid-range shooting.
As for the Mage-Priest, I’d say you only need one if you’re running 2+ Fire Elementals, and even then you could take a Herald w/ surge. Now that the Priest inspires all she’s certainly more attractive in more lists, and she’s a nice survivable caster with access to cool spells, being Tier 2. But your list here is fine without her.
EDIT: You could actually take the Primes horde + 2x Lancer troops in your list, which is admittedly the better move than tripling down on Rhinos. Basically, I think Lancer troops are interesting as chaff / flankers while regiments are going to struggle to do anything. Them being H3 (and fast) while the Rhinos are H4 is particularly nice.
Rhinosaur Cavalry (Horde) 250
– Maccwar’s Potion of the Caterpillar 20
Rhinosaur Cavalry (Horde) 250
– Sir Jesse’s Boots of Striding 15
Salamander Primes (Horde) 225
Scorchwings* (Regiment) 120
Scorchwings* (Regiment) 120
Kaisenor Lancers (Troop) 125
Kaisenor Lancers (Troop) 125
Phoenix 195
Clan Lord on Fire Drake 290
– Blessing of the Gods 20
Rakawas, the Pale Rider [1] 245
~ 2000 ~
awesome, I like this list a lot! I am only afraid of what it would do to my wallet if I buy all those rhinosaurs from Mantic!
Still, I am digging this list. I like the idea of all fast lizards, especially when they are still tanky, and the list you provided would work wonders too! a good thought experiment showing just how flexible we are!
As an aside, I was surprised yesterday when they announced that corsairs are now in a single, relatively cheap box! That definitely makes me wanna pick some up now!
Glad to help! I’ve never seen such a fast, smashmouth Sallies list but it certainly seems fun! Also good news on Corsairs becoming more available 
alright, so how good is a regiment of unblooded? I was going to make them, but after playing two games, I think they may be too squishy. Should I make some ancients instead with my mega army?
I struggle to find a use for them in the Sallies list. I guess if you just want an unlock and don’t want to take Ghekkotah for reasons, then Unblooded can be that? Compared to other pseudo-berserker units these have a higher than average De (most berserkers are 3+) and you can boost them to a charge range of 12-14" if an upgraded Greater Fire is hanging around them plus pathfinder if an upgraded Battle Captain is nearby as well … but they hit worse than most berserkers (who are often Me 3+) and their larger base size makes them harder to double up or punch through gaps and etc. A horde could be cool, however at that point Primes feel like a better buy, with the higher Nv and baked in CS, doubly so if you swap to CS (2), and the fact that you’re not really going to alpha many armies with your heavy infantry, so the WC is sort of a moot point.
Unblooded hordes also compete with Tyrants, with have a better damage output and a more meaningful charge distance (i.e. they outcharge most other large infantry) plus can’t be wavered.
Ancients on the other hand will be useful in just about all Salalmander armies that aren’t all cav 
yea, that;s what I was thinking too. when I build 2k lists I don’t see a place for them at all over tyrants or rhino cav. Just going to go ahead and paint my sallies as ancients and maybe get the unblooded later on.
Other than that, I have some thoughts. Tyrants are good, especially as a horde, but it is pretty hard to hide two squads very well. Still, nothing hits quite like them, and I need to keep them behind the front lines.
I like the rhino cav, though getting disordered is a big hit to them. Still, I just have to make sure they get the charge.
the Ashen Rider and the CLoFD are both really fun to play with, even if they can get killed easily. had one game with CLOFD having the Brew of sharpness and another with blessing of the gods, and the brew of sharpness really incentivized me to go out and smash stuff.
Other things I learned: Niads are insane to break through sometimes, and ice elementals hurt like hell
yes, you definitely don’t want to charge regen, ensnaring ice Naiads in the front, especially if they’re backed up by a healer.
Your tyrants did some good work. If they can get a clear charge, they’re going to slaughter things. But they were easy to chaff up or shoot off, so you need to find ways to protect them.
The CLOFD and Ashen Rider were great! Lots of force projection all over the board.