Thats interesting. In my playtests (granted, only 3 of them until now) they have not lived up to this observation. Their damage is too little (see above, 6-ish wounds against def 6+, 4-ish when hindered/ensnared) and their nerve is too low to sustain a charge from a dedicated hammer. Def 5+ is great on paper, but in practice most rolls against them have (at least) +2 to damage, so most damage is still on a 3-up. -/17 nerve means 9 wounds to be in trouble and most hammers are able to do this.
Teaming up as you describe looks great on paper, but getting 3 hordes to work in tandem is harder than it looks. Also 3 hordes + a horde zombies (chaff) + necro (inspiring/buff) = 775 points, which is quite a lot.
So while I do agree with you they look great on paper for their role, I cannot get them to work on the battlefield. As undead have other options which have more bang-for-their -buck, I cannot agree with your assessment that they are undercosted. (only when comparing to regular trolls, but these are also very bad)
Finally, Clash '22 will not have nerfs, so Z-trolls will not go up in point. The question remains if they will be buffed and if yes, how.
That undead as an army don’t need too many buffs, I can agree with, I just hope that fielding something but the obligatory double soul reaver infantry and wights becomes viable.
To be fair, virtually all LI and LCav units would struggle against this attack profile - and the trolls are both at the cheaper end of the scale, are fearless and have regen
Zombie trolls don’t regenerate. Apparently, not being alive does hinder the regenerative capabilities of their bodies. It’s sad that being dead does wonders to their intelligence, but leaves their physical prowess wanting…
Other than that, I fully agree that defensively they are on the same level as other elite regiments / normal large infantry hordes, but most of these units have significantly better damage output.
My point is that they have a bit too little offense to be used as an effective hammer and a pip nerve too little to be an effective anvil. This leaves a hybrid unit that -on paper- should do very well, but in reality suffers. In KoW2 they were the same attack profile @165 points (but def 4+) and I liked them much more.
I think zombie trolls need to work alongside regular zombies.
People say their foes target zombie trolls with high crushing strength units…
So give each unit a zombie regiment escort. When the enemy is lining up something with crushing strength throw/surge the zombies in the way. That crushing strength is now wasted and you can get grinding away.
It’s silly to say oh my defense 5 units aren’t good because there are units with high crushing strength. There are ways to counter the counter to your unit!
I feel CS (2) or likewise comes up very often for all but the most dedicated anvils. If a unit is designed to hammer, it’s gotta have that +2 CS or better. (using bane chant, items, or whatever) . This means that nerve is worth far more than defense and why infantry hordes generally are a lot better for soaking damage than large infantry hordes.
I agree that zombie trolls don’t work for your original idea @Vince. They don’t have the hitting power to be the main hammers of an army. They are a hammer anvil hybrid, meaning they don’t do both exceptionally well.
I think they could work as a second line unit, there to smash whatever makes it through your tarpit or to act as a surge threat to flyers who jump over the main line. I could see 3 hordes of zombies, 2 goreblights, and 2 hordes of trolls potentially working. Zombies up front with goreblight between, trolls behind and a necro/king to support.
As I’m still in the process of designing such an force (see first post) I’ll try this out.
*2 hordes of zombies (3 is too much, they take too much table space. 2 work well. This I found out in my first playtests) = 230
2 hordes Z-trolls = 380
2 Goreblight = 350
Necro, inspiring talisman, zombie aura, surge, bane chant = 110
Total 1070
And this might make a decent center (my gut feeling is I need more hitting power, so I will probably add a vampire on a steed or one on an undead pegasus) leaving me 1,230 points to spend on the wings and support.
Everyone could use a Pegasus vampire, but why mount the one used to support the main line? Following that logic, why not a cursed pharaoh (better defence and surge for support)?
yeah Vampire Lords on foot either fight regiments worse than other options, or fail to catch individuals all game. mounts are good! pegasi are better. going to try out the Wings soon, just to have even more flying vamps.
I feel like you’d want to support your line of zombies with as many Necromancers as you can fit, and maybe even a Liche. Also, no regiments for chaffing and/or table corners etc?
Luis – 8/10
I love Zombie Trolls. I just love them. It maybe just that I love their aesthetic but I play them really often.
They are a mid-range point value unit with: great defensive stats, good offensive value, average speed, reasonable small footprint. They are a great addition to any slow shambling line. One of their best qualities is that they synergize very good with Necromancers’ Vicious aura and other units with the zombie keyword. They are very resilient and maybe don’t seem a very good hammer but with the aura and a Banechant nearby they put 9 dmg on average which is amazing for their points.
They really shine when things get close and personal, as if properly positioned they will get many flank-surge charges opportunities. I prefer them in hordes and I tend to take more than one paired with at least one Necromancer and some screening units. They really need screening units as they will be almost always out charged and they also need protection from shooting. I don’t usually give magic items, but I sometimes give them: Pipes of Terror, Healing Brew, Hann’s Sanguinary Scripture or Brew of Sharpness.
I also see value on the regiment size as screening units or thick chaff, but there are many competitors in the army and I usually pick other units for that role.
Mike – 7/10
I’m a fan of Zombie Trolls. Their stats are solid enough at a decent price to make for a good battle line unit. I usually put a Necromancer with the Vicious Aura and Inspiring Talisman behind a couple of hordes of them along with a Goreblight for a solid battle group.
Pat – 8/10
Solid and dependable. The ability to gain Vicious from Necromancers can make the Zombie Troll a great all-rounder. If I was investing in shamblers and surge, I’d be hard-pressed not to include two hordes of these guys to anchor a portion of the battlefield.
Tom – 8/10
God are these cheap. A great mix of points efficient offense and defence. 18, CS2 Me4 is enough of a hammer to make it stick when they attack and -/17 with Lifeleech is right on the line for what can be considered a resilient unit. There’s some great (as we all know by now) support options available, the super cheap Necromancer sporting the Vicious aura combines solidly with the innate surge and cheap Bane Chant. The roster is tailored to get the best out of every Undead unit and with the cheap cost I think people miss these in favour of Wights etc. You can build a solid line with three hordes of these and a Necro, at that point the trolls are almost matching Werewolves and Soul Reaver cav, that Necro is almost free!
Yesterday I did a battle again to retry the zombie trolls (maybe I missed something in the first couple of tests) so I retried them, this time in a battlegroup of:
My other battlegroup consisted of dual soul reaver infantry, skeleton spear horde, rev. king (surge) and the goreblight.
The battle went great (I played against a ratkin lightning list) but the z-trolls didn;t live up again. In one crucial charge, they dual-charged a ratkin warrior horde who already had a wound or 2. One horde was hindered, the other was not and they were within the necromancer aura.
All in, the hindered z-troll horde did 4 wounds, the other 9. Together, they did 13 wounds, combined with the 2 already there makes 15. The horde of ratkin had (rallied) 21/23 nerve, so they predicatably held.
Roughly said, I have a dual charge with my hammer units, supported by a necromancer with the buff aura on an already damaged throwaway unit, did average-ish wounds and could not rout them on a 7+.
So even though I really want these Z-trolls to work, their average damage is not enough to warrant inclusion. 400 points (2x trolls + aura) is a nice budget for a hammer unit or two.
Didn’t want to open a new topic for my question…
Husband is assembling his Mantic zombie trolls right now and the arms seem to be way too small for the area at the torso. Do they all need greenstuffing? Or are there bits missing to cover the gap?
any metal models like that, I would drill and pin the arms to the torso. if I do green stuff work after that it would be to make it look better but not being dependent on the green stuff for it to stick.
Yeah! It is!! I will need a lot greenstuff to create some additional muscels. I am glad they are zombies - so I don’t have to be too accurate
I was just wondering how you guys worked that out, therefore I asked here in this thread
Apparently, not being alive does hinder the regenerative capabilities of their bodies. It’s sad that being dead does wonders to their intelligence, but leaves their physical prowess wanting…
