Obviously the two player set is using the new models - and as @lowlylowlycook points out a couple of these are bigger/fewer in number than would normally have been for the unit sizes they are.
This means going forward they can play around with how new stuff is done - but there is going to be a lot of normal sized infantry floating around.
I love them, I want the all in bundle but I don’t know if I can afford it. Will get the battalion, war engines, and shaoquan initially, with probably extras of the big plastic stuff. Just need to convince Mantic to give me my staff discount on the bundle 
Strongest release so far I think. Model range looks great, and Mongolian Empire is excellent theme to lean into, greatest land empire in history.
For the couple of people criticising Asian dog them, Mongols in thier creation mythology are descended from a great sky wolf, and wolves /dogs and “steppe dogs” were powerful totems, titles, and symbols of strength and pride - not an insult. They called themselves wolves and dogs and were referred to this by their enemies (which might even be a historical reason why some Chinese dislike dogs now?!). Also the Xirkaali Empire leader name Temulun is clear reference to Temujin (Ghengis Khan’s name).
I like the lore and art, but the models are kinda bad especially for the price. I’m hoping they stop hiring Luigi sooner rather than later. I’m wondering how the anti-magic rules will work on the table. They and the fish people are a weird choice for posterboys of a new edition over a normal human army.
It’s not always easy plugging a ‘normal human army” in a fantasy game with so many other races and options out there.
Mantic’s lore based one are the Basileans, who have had a bit of recent love and potentially could have been a lead army - but possibly not until the sisters get updated along with the elohi.
Rule-wise, spellward already exists as a way of giving anti magic, while the spellcaster trait means this could easily be added to xirkaali unit special rules to show this in action?
being a wired choice or not, when the competition is doing mostly historical humans (be it dead or alive) with fantasy elements, going much more fantastical route to start isn’t a bad idea to set yourself apart
like Basilea and Empire of Dust would have been a wired choice in that regard, having the ones no one else is doing as the poster boys of this edition at least sets them apart and shows off the difference to new people
One thing they didn’t do with their embrace of unit basing is mixed units. You could imagine a unit of human gunners guarded by hemicyon warriors. Perhaps their dog ears cant hold up to the guns going off within inches.
Which is curious, because the old dwarf ranger kit was a mix of crossbows and shield breakers.
That way pretty much entirely down to the fact that the plastic dwarf range consisted of a couple of different sprues - 2hw, hw+shield, gun/xbow!
Also note that while they promote multibasing and ‘ignore 5x2 and 5x4’ unit building, what do we get for the monks - 20 blokes ranked up 5x4
As an East Asian, specifically Chinese, it is insulting because they are shoe-horning a dog/kobold faction into an East Asian theme w/o much research. For those of you who kept claiming its mongolian, it only bears slight resemblance to mongolians, and even those are based off monoglian armor stolen/inspired from chinese ones.
But the design is too Chinese:
the 麒麟-(or kirin) looking ride.
the monk-looking Yan (yes there are differences in Mongolian, Chinese and Japanese Buddhist monks; the shoulder-baring monks are predominantly Chinese.
the larger sabres or 大刀 which the Chinese armies used right up to WW2, rather than the thinner sabres used by mongols on horseback.
the pyramid hats (which is Chinese all the way up to Vietnam)
the mortars and rockets (which are Chinese inventions, a thematic mongolian siege engine will feature catapults throwing carcasses, a form of early biological warfare).
the swinging-type rather than spear-type polearm on horseback is also predominantly Chinese rather than Mongolian.
And these are the idioms, adjectives, nouns used by the Chinese in relation to dogs, is why this is in bad taste:
狗皇帝 - Dog Emperor - useless emperor
狗官 - Dog Official - useless/ corrupt official
狗奴才 - Dog slave - derogatory term
狗男女 - Dog couple, referring to couples having an affair.
落水狗 - Wet dog: bad guys who lost their power/clout
喪家之犬 - Last dog of a dead family - Abandoned/remainder of a defeated faction
狗頭軍師 - Dog-headed strategist - Idiots who like to give lots of ideas, but are too incompetent to good ideas
人模狗樣 - Dog acting like human - derogatory term to describe someone acting above their capability or status
豬狗不如 - Worse than Pig and Dogs - Someone of bad character
豬朋狗友 - Pig Dog Friends; “friends” who lead others astray
狼心狗肺 - A person with a wolf’s heart and dog’s lungs; Friends who do bad shit and influence others to do so as well
狗眼看人低 - Using dogs eyes to look at people. meaning to look down on people despite being of a lower status/capability
狗嘴吐不出象牙 - A dog mouth cant grow elephant tusks (tusks are considered valuable). i.e. someone with a bad mouth cant say anything good.
狗屁不通 - Illogical dog fart. Used to describe ill-logic, incoherence
狗改不了吃屎 - Dog cant stop eating poop; same idiom as a leopard never changes its spots
狗血淋頭 - To describe someone being scolded to the extent its as if dog blood was poured on that person (which is insulting in Chinese context).
狗頭鍘 - Dog-head guillotine - the lowest class of guillotine (the other two being Tiger-head for high-ranking officials, and Dragon-head for royalty and nobles).
狗屎 - Dog shit - when referring to someone who is cruel and of bad character.
The Xirkaali were conceived of as a “race of canines” by Matt and Ronnie.
Kyle Przelenski has talked on podcasts, and the article below, about being caught up in this idea, and drawing inspiration from dogs.
I assume fantasy pan-Asian was the aesthetic they then settled on, in that the threat comes from the East. I suppose that could be considered a little lazy, but it is what it is, and it brings a new aesthetic not previously represented in KOW.
As regards Mongol vs Chinese, it seems a bit of a moot point as this is a fantasy aesthetic - how historically or culturally “accurate” is any of it, really?
I think the lore (Ophidian background, aversion to magic) is probably as central to their identity as their fantasy Asian aesthetic… Maybe moreso! It’s their history and their “why”, rather than just the clothes they wear and weapons they carry.
Designing the Xirkaali for Kings of War - Mantic Games
As dogs are generally well-loved in many countries, and younger people in the west tend to particularly find them cute, I suspect a dog-themed faction is - overall - going to be fairly appealing to Mantic’s market. I don’t know how many Asians are offended by dogs or have a very negative view of them.
There doesn’t seem to be much options open to you, as someone who is offended, other than to not support the Xirkaali faction with your money, I guess.
If you find it offensive then you have every right not to like it.
There are Mantic models and ranges that I don’t like and will never buy for far less substantial reasons.
Insisting that Mantic have insulted anyone, purposefully or otherwise, is less reasonable.
Declaring that the Xirkaali are Chinese is questionable.
A civilization like China will influence nearby cultures, especially if conquered. The Mongol Empire had a lot of Chinese influence; like the Greeks influenced the Roman Empire and Persians influenced the Caliphate.
So, pointing to things that may have similarly to inspiration from a culture doesn’t make something that culture.
Also, I don’t think that the design of a fantasy army for a game takes real history that seriously.
Linking anything in fantasy to something in the real world and then declaring the author is expressing a view or insult to that real world thing is a stretch even for literature with strong themes, which KoW minis and thier lore is certainly not.
As for dogs; western culture also considers dogs as below the lowest status. Comparing a person to, or treating someone like, a dog is insulting and reprehensible.
At the same time, dogs themselves are loved and popular. They’re considered loyal and often adorable companions.
Yes, my sense is that the Xirkaali are an empire in the true sense… Some of the models we are seeing are subjects from vassal states. We might expect to see some differences among them (and indeed people have criticised the line on the grounds that it is not aesthetically consistent in all cases… This could be why).
I am not terribly au fait with the Mongols, but I suppose again that’s why people make the parallel.
I suspect that comparison might be overblown too… If they were going for Mongol, it could be MORE Mongol than it is!
More fur-clad barbarians on tiny ponies?
To me, the first thing that came to mind when the xirkaali were shown/written about wasn’t anything explicitly historical, but a set of AD&D Forgotten Realms novels (Horselords, Dragonwall, Crusades) - which were themselves a fantasy take on the mongols, their attacks to both the east and west and the latter’s failed efforts to repel them (more due to arguing than on field incompetence).
u asked for a take from an east asian, that’s my take. and i can tell you im not the only chinese who thinks that way. us chinese can tell the little differences from when you take inspiration from chinese vs mongols vs japs (except the koreans, they are too much like the chinese).
i have even given my explanation as to why it it more chinese in aesthetics than mongolians, just that you choose not to accept it. it is insulting because of its lack of research; shoehorning dogs into chinese culture is cultural misappropriation and a total lack of cultural insensitivity, which they could have done better in. just look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGr5ZBawDeU
In fact, the chinese market is so unpredictable if they had done this right, the chinese market would have propagated it on their own without much efforts from mantic.
East could be Middle Eastern/ Arabic too (though using dogs for them will be just as bad, given how muslims cant even touch dog saliva), not necessarily chinese. my take is they are trying to hard to not-be-cathay, which IS chinese.
You dont have to be “culturally accurate”. No one is asking them to be, but if you want to be inspired from a culture, you should at least not take an offensive animal type. Felines, primates, mustelids could have been fine. But canines? Chinese culture had always used wolves, foxes and dogs as derogatory terms (yes wolves and foxes too). if they wanted to be mongolian, at least make the bows recurve bows, go for thinner scimitars.
As to why chinese which forms one of the largest, if not largest, east asian groups (and diasporas), dislike dogs, its because culturally for most of our history, it is an agricultural society, and much less on hunter gatherers. Even hunter gatherers dont really use dog (they rather train birds to fish). Dogs are usually pets of the wealthy, and in a society where the commoners were repressed by the rich for centuries, dogs are just… offensive slaves of the rich, hence all the derogatory terms using the noun for dog.
Are you in an Asian country, Jenks, or do you live in the West - if that’s not too personal a question?
I guess with dog-ownership being so normalised, and dogs being so popular in the cultures of a variety of western countries where Mantic has really large player bases, truth is they are probably not focused on the historical attitude to dogs in China.
I also think they might not concede your claim the Xirkaali are mainly Chinese themed.
Anyway, it’s unfortunate you are offended, but as mentioned above - not clear what the endgame with this is, at this point. Maybe the Xirkaali will not do well with Chinese consumers, time will tell?
I like the models released for them so far. Not to the extent of an entire army but might try and and pick up some for my DnD group’s East Asian inspired campaign.
well, Warhammer is something different here, as GW is doing historical armies with fantasy elements, most of them are literally just copy&paste of a very specific historical setting, timeline and background with Magic added on top.
while Kings of War is a fantasy World independent from real history, Basilea is as much Roman as Xirkaali are Chinese
in that case the settings themselves have a different background to start with, and Warhammer has its very own problem with cultural insensitivity (looking at Kislev) and just they did it right with one army, doesn’t really mean they did better with others. But people ignore that most of the time because it is still a fantasy game.
this is in interesting perspective and I don’t think it has to do with agriculture vs hunters as like in central Europe dogs were used for work in all parts from farmers up to the nobility (with hunting being a privilege of the nobles and therefore those being the only ones using dogs for hunting while farmers used them to protect the animals or carry carts)
also there was a punishment for people who raided the neighboring lands to carry a dog thru those (so being de classed to carry the low level animal)
and “dog” are still a slur here, and calling someone a dog one of the worst possible insults (while the English word “bitch” is an insult for woman but at the same time the word for female dog)
Yet I would not think of dog people in European style armour as insulting or being meant to insult me (and fantasy settings have used that) for the simple reason that it is a fantasy setting
if you feel that way, there is not much one can do, and if Mantic lost on the chinese market because most people there feel that way it would be bad luck and not much that can be done now
while at the same time they are competing against Cathay without knowing about it, so there was no real chance if “winning” against them no matter what they would have done (primates or mustelids might have been fine for you but would have been considered an insult by others)
