Battle Report 22
2300pts vs New Twilight Kin: Control
Intro and Lists:
With the new and improved Twilight Kin hitting the Mantic App my regular opponent Ben was keen to see if he could catch me out with the all the latest tricks. For my part I wanted to try out a tweak to my Dragon List so was happy to oblige. Ben has kindly offered to provide review of the new Twilight Kin Army list in addition to his thoughts on the game.
Twilight Kin Review & List:
I’ve posted the Mantic App output so you can see the attributes of the new units that Ben is using. Everything looked worryingly good value to my eyes (because you’re a biased old fashioned elf - Ben) but hopefully I was wrong.
Ben’s Thoughts on his list:
So as a change of pace we decided to try out the new twilight Kin. It’s always fun playing a different faction especially one that’s been branded as the new overpowered filth. I also find it a useful way of, as Sun Tsu said “knowing your enemy”. My initial thought was wow! That’s a lot of good stuff! But when I came to build the army the number of irregular units really hampered my attempts at creating the Uber list of my dreams.
Bloodhex is the army special rule which essentially gives a unit def 5 for a turn. Overall this is good and when combined with a plethora of weakness it really adds to units’ survivability. Additionally there is the new rule, Broadside which allows units to shoot from their flanks, to me this doesn’t look great on paper as it offers too many opportunities to be flanked but time will tell.
My initial plan was to build an MSU list, however my head was turned by all the big shiny things. I still think that could be a really effective style with the Twilight Kin as they’ve got some really good low 100 point units. The build I went for had a little shooting to draw units forward combined with some good anvils and hammers.
The first thing I looked at was the formation. For 30 points you get to give two troops fearless with a rallying aura, but on the down side you can’t upgrade them to have bloodhex To me it felt a little meh. I think we’ll see it mainly being left on the shelf.
Next I looked for some unlocks. I wanted to bring some hordes in, the options are Fleetwardens (spearmen), Corsair voidwalkers (me3 and ensnare options) and Impalers (slow, hard hitting, big shield and fearless). Overall they’re all good options but I think the upgraded Corsair voidwalkers and the Impalers edge it. I knew from previously using Nightstalkers I’d definitely be using some Phantoms as chaff but I also chose to include a troop of fleetwardens in the mix as the phalanx and de5 offered a tougher option.
Before we get onto the irregulars a brief mention for the units I turned down: Reapers, ‘the normal’ unit, I see a place for them as unlocks but in this list they feel basic even with the upgrade. Mutants: ‘the speed’, initially I wanted to put these in but their points feel a bit on the high side even though they’re a good alpha charge option, there is plenty to out pace them and they’re fragile. Skiffs: ‘the Swiss army knife’ these guys have a bit of everything and at 165 points fully kitted you’ll be seeing a lot of them. They didn’t make the cut mainly due to the unlock issues and my concern for the flanking risk opened by broadside shooting (made worse by being chariot bases). Wranglers: ‘Jack of all trades’ I’m just not sure what these are meant to do, the 6” shooting is a softener (it also disorders but I can’t see a situation where a charge from chaff or these guys being the hammer offers much use, they do have move 7 so against mv 6 units they could theoretically keep them at bay) they can take bloodhex to keep them alive, they then have elite and cs1 to hit back but overall it feels like they don’t offer enough compared to other things in the army to get brought off the bench much.
So onto the real fun, irregulars: Phantoms, Butchers, Voidweavers, Ravagers & Soul Flayers. I love the Phantom troops, 100 points is a bargain (fearless, flying, def 4) and the regiment isn’t bad at 155 either (I quite like using Hammer on them to make them a little punchy). I chose to take two troops as chaff. One of the overall weaknesses with the new list is a lack of speed so fly 10 really helps. Next Butchers: nothing wrong here, one of the few stealthy units with de 5, for me other units were more tempting but you’ll see them, especially as troops in MSU lists. Voidweavers, these are really the only ranged units of any substance. They can take Fireball as standard or upgrade to Lightning Bolt. Fireball feels like a much weaker option so I’d expect to mostly see Lightning Bolt. They aren’t great shooters but I wanted something to provide a shooting platform so took two. Additionally they provided a bit of unit strength so they can act as back line token anchors and still offer something to the army. Ravagers: these are very similar to Ogre Boomers except they’re irregular!! Still they are another unit that adds some good shooting so I decided to take a horde. They also have stealthy which is nice but I don’t expect to see armies full of them. The regiment has the option to upgrade to piercing 2 which is nice. In an MSU you’ll probably see a few of these. Lastly Soulflayers: a pretty good unit that has fly, mv8, cs1, tc1 and me3. The wind blast offers some nice synergy with the broadside risk and they’re not too expensive. In the end i couldn’t fit them in due to a shortage of unlocks.
Monsters: Mindscreech, Terror, Goredrake, Voidlurker (I know it’s a character but I’m including it here). The Twilight Kin are blessed with some great monsters, however, the limited unlocks once again come into play so I didn’t end up including any in my list (reluctantly as who doesn’t love a giant monster as a center piece?) A point to note is Twilight Kin aren’t blessed with much pathfinder/strider and two of these brutes have strider which helps.
Mindscreech: a classic monster, many Nightstalker lists have taken 3 of these and with the range of spells I’d expect to see these coming to a table top near you soon. I didn’t include them in my list because I wanted the extra unit strength of the Voidweavers. Still they’re cheaper and wind blast can be a game winner. Terror: possibly the ultimate tar pit, I’ve always been a fan and now they’ve got rampage 8 they’re even better, combine with a sprinkling of weakness and this buggers not going anywhere. Oh and did I say they’re now US2!! Overall a great unit, we’ll be seeing quite a few of these. I didn’t include this time as I was keen to try out other units but they’re defiantly going in a future list. Goredrake: not a bad unit but probably slightly behind the curve compared to other 190-210 flying beasts due to only having movement 8. Again benefits from that tasty US 2 . Voidlurker: this is one of my favourites, I really tried to get this into my list and next time I’ll try harder. This one comes in at 290 with an upgrade for extra nerve and inspiring. It’s a great unit and a fast big hitter which is Twilight Kin lists cab need. I think most people won’t leave home without one.
Characters: there are a multitude of good character in the Twilight Kin list, it’s here where I felt the unlock issue most keenly as I wanted to take six! There are some characters with cool auras that really support the army, I expect there are one or two that really stand out as being top tier (Crones anyone) but I think the trick will be using them to get the most out of the rest of the army. Assassin: I took one as I always like a mobile character to help control the table. Great disruptor, plus scout and movement 7 for a cheeky first turn charge option. Dread is lovely, the fell blade means any damage inflicted also causes weakness. I equipped mine with Torc of Dissidence but they’re great vanilla too at 120 points. Navigator: nice little support character, if there was room you could spam them to get loads of ice breath (5). This character also has the legacy of Oscan that gives the three aura options so you might see a few but you’ll probably not have room with all the Crones. Crone: ok so here’s the big one, the Weakness version is so good, it inspires, it weakens and it does damage (into combat too if you fancy) all for 90 points!! I took two and I’d have taken more if I could have fitted them in, very cheap, very good! If I had to describe the TK it would be an elite army backed up by Weakness casting Crones.
Captain: a very nice foot character that can upgrade to 7 attacks and fearless nerve 15 for 100 points plus its rallying 1 to corsairs. In any other army you’d expect to see a few but it just looks bridesmaid not bride in this list . Fleshripper: pretty standard 115 point movement 6 nimble character but he doesn’t inspire so I’d guess he won’t be getting much love. Soulbane on Nightmare: I took one to provide extra inspire and a bit of speed. They’ve got all the good stuff plus dread; very solid 155 points. Captain on Skiff: he’s ok I suppose, does a bit of everything but he feels expensive to me. He does add seven 18” shots from broard side which is nice. You can upgrade to vice admiral to give very inspiring and headstrong to twilight elves, which is ok to but it doesn’t feel like the best use of the points. Navigator on Skiff: cheaper version of the captain with the aura and only 110 points. At that price he feels like a much better option and in the right list I think he’s a goer. He can do a bit of everything and at those points you don’t mind losing him too much. Impaler Soul Bane: it feels like they missed off the big shield. 9 attacks with elite and cs2 on nimble is good but movement 5 means he won’t be charging ahead, good line protector and counter charger.
Special characters: La’theal: a pretty handy caster, I’d over looked her when I built the list (was probably starting at the Crone entry instead) but some really great skills and the stealthy aura is pretty nice. The main thing for me is that her eye of Valak skill essentially turns all targeting spells into elite and removes stealthy. As her spells cause damage at piercing 1 I think you’ll want to drop a Crone to fit her in. Mikayel: the big sword wielding character, he’s great for his points and with very inspiring and mv 8 in at 235 points next time I’ll drop the Soulbane on nightmare to get him in.
Overall I think the list has some very good bits but I don’t think it’s overpowered. I’d like to try some different combinations to really get a feel for the list. My selection is based on trying to get a balanced list with a shooting platform I’m sure it’ll need changing but I think it’s a good base to get a feel for the units. I’ve not really worked out the big trick moves yet but I suspect shooting will be where it lies!
Elf List
Mage (Alenui): Inspiring Talisman, Bane Chant, Lightning Bolt: 135pts
Mage (Eldroth): Lightning Bolt, Bane Chant Conjurers Staff: 125pts
King (King Eataine): Horse, Pipes of Terror: 145pts
Dragon Lord (Alahir): Blade of Slashing: 310pts
Seaguard Horde: Fire Oil: 265pts
Palace Guard Horde: Chalice of Wrath: 280pts
Quicksilver Regiment: Jesse’s Boots: 250pts
Stormwind Troop: Skirmishers Boots: 145pts
Stormwind Troop: 135pts
Silverbreeze Troop: 115pts
Silverbreeze Troop: 115pts
Drakon Horde: Healing Brew: 280pts
2300pts
My previous version of this list had a Seaguard regiment and more items, by replacing the Seaguard with a cheaper troop of Silverbreese and dropping some items I was able to split my Stormwind Regiment into two troops. With the Skirmisher’s boots on one giving them nimble I really like these cav troops. They’re not as good value as the cheap quick monsters some other races have but they still perform a similar and valuable role.
Deployment and Scenario
We rolled up a random map and chose to play Control as we find it a simple & balanced scenario and that would help us evaluate the Twilight Kin in a fair light. I won the roll for sides and chose to take the North side. The map seemed fairly symmetrical so I didn’t see much advantage either way.
Ben had a few more drops than me so I focused on getting my larger units into the open ground on the right. Ben deployed fairly evenly. My final deployment was my Dragon which I placed on the far left so that Ben would have to choose whether to reinforce on the right leaving the Dragon space to threaten or to counter the dragon with his final units. He decided leaving a dragon unchecked wouldn’t be pleasant and my right flank breathed a sigh of relief. Ben won the first turn roll and keen to get the early advantage he took it.
Ben’s Assassin having scout had caught me off guard but fortunately my mages had been deployed out of sight to protect them against shooting so Ben had to settle for charging my Seaguard to shut down their shooting. On the left one of Ben’s Corsair hordes and Soulbane pushed up aggressively.
The remainder of the evil forces advanced cautiously. Shooting saw most damage inflicted on the central Silverbreeze. In combat the Assassin evaded the spears of the Seaguard to bring down two of the brave seaelfs.
Elves Turn 1
The Silverbreeze on the right were just in range of the Phantoms so charged to provide a screen allowing the rest of the flank to advance. On the left the Dragon moved away from the flank hoping to leave Ben’s units out of position.
Shooting saw the Corsairs to the left get wavered by a lucky nerve roll. In combat the Seaguard, released from the Crone’s Weakness Curse by Alenui’s counter spell, killed the foul Assassin. Sadly the Silverbreeze failed to land a blow on the Phantoms leaving them free to fly off and the Impalers begins able to charge.
Twilight Kin Turn 2
On the right the Phantom troop was free to fly off and block the Palace Guard, this allowed the Impalers to charge the Stormwind troop. The Silverbreeze were then punished for their failure to land a wound on the Phantons by a flank charge from the Fleetwardens.
The remaining Twilight forces shuffled forwards with a Corsair horde using the Blood Hex to increase it’s defence by one. Shooting caused a few wounds whilst the Drakons and Quivksilvers were weakened. Combat saw the Stormwind Troop wavered and the flanked Silverbreeze destroyed on the right.
Elves Turn 2
The dragon continued its flight from the left flying behind the building in my deployment zone. The remaining Stormwind troop moved to block the line of sight of the phantoms.
The right flank saw a flurry of charges. The Quicksilver cavalry and King charged the Voidweavers in the wood, the Drakons charged the Fleetwardens and the Palace Guard flanked the blocking Phantoms.
Shooting focused on the already damaged Corsair horde building up a decent amount of damage. In combat the Drakons were caught out as I hadn’t noticed the Fleetwardens had phalanx, fortunately it didn’t cost me as some good rolls saw them routed. The Void Weavers and Phantoms were disposed of by the Cavalry with King and Palace Guard respectively on the right.
Twilight Kin Turn 3
On the right Ben’s Impalers went back into the Stormwind troop to finish it off and the Corsair Horde charged the Drakons. Things were more sedate on the left as Ben continued his slow advance and the Phantoms jumped over the Stormwind’s who’d been blocking their line of sight.
Shooting saw the Crones target the Palace Guard on the hill and Silverbreeze in the centre with Weakness, this wavered the Silverbreeze. The remaining Void Weavers targeted the Stormwind troop behind the wood but only caused minor damage. The Ravengers took aim at the Quicksilvers but the wood helped save the Elven knights from much of the damage.
In combat the Impalers easy finished off the Stormwind troop and turned ready to take the charge from the Palace Guard on the hill. The Corsairs landed some damage on the Drakons but fell well short of causing any issues.
Elves Turn 3
The Palace Guard charged down the hill into the Impalers the momentum from the slope countering the malaise that had infected them from the Crone’s Weakness curse. The King also went into the weaker flank of the Impalers hoping to make a crucial difference. The Seaguard took the expose flank of the Corsairs facing the Drakons although found themselves hindered by the fence they had to cross. The remaining units shuffled around for better positions.
Shooting began with the Dragon’s fiery breath engulfing a Ravenger. This was followed by the mages weaving powerful spells on the weapons of the Infantry Hordes. Combat went poorly for the Elves as the Impalers comfortably held and the Corsairs couldn’t even be wavered despite being engaged on two sides.
Twilight Kin Turn 4
With the elves failing in combat the Twilight Kin struck back with the Corsairs and Impalers going into the Drakons and Palace Guard. At the top of the board the Phantoms charged the wavered Silverbreeze to finish them off.
Shooting mainly focused on the Quicksilvers with weakness and 4 more damage was caused but the knights remained stoically committed to the cause. Combat saw some big loses for the Elves as the Drakons and Silverbreeze went down but the Palace Guard had plenty of nerve to absorb the Impaler’s attack.
Elves Turn 4
The loss of the Drakons was a blow, with the remaining cavalry also looking vulnerable I was running out of units to claim the board sections. I did, however, have the advantage of position as Ben’s remaining units weren’t able to threaten me in combat.
The Corsair Horde was already nursing heavy damage so I looked to focus my mages and dragon on them whilst they were still in the open. My Quicksilvers didn’t look like they’d last much longer so despite being hindered and weakened I threw them into the Ravengers hoping it would at least add some damage or perhaps a lucky waver.
The Stormwind on the left entered the forest stopping the Void Weavers from escaping the Dragon’s wrath next turn. The King charged the Crone in the wood to shut down the constant damage from his weakness spell. Finally the Seaguard and Palace Guard continued their fights on the right.
Shooting saw 7 more damage added to the Corsairs who were promptly wavered leaving them sitting ducks next turn. The Impalers and Corsairs were comfortably mopped up but best of all the Quicksilvers surprised everyone by routing the Ravengers! Finally the King landed a wound on the Crone.
Twilight Kin Turn 5
Ben’s focus was killing the Stormwind and Quicksilvers, Lightning and Weakness proved too much for the Quicksilvers in the shooting phase whilst even cowering behind a tree couldn’t save the Stormwind troop from the Soulbane.
Elves Turn 5
The two Elven infantry hordes advanced towards the centre keen to claim the more valuable sections of the board. The King continued to harass the Crone in the wood and the Dragon charged the Void Weavers hoping two turns would be enough to banish them back from where they came.
Shooting saw the Seaguard train their bows on the badly damaged Corsair horde breaking the spirits of the pirates once and for all. Both mages focused their lightning bolts on to the Phantoms but were only able to ruffle a few feathers. Combat saw the Crone and Void Weavers both wavered.
Twilight Kin Turn 6
With the Elves largely out of reach there wasn’t much Ben could do, the Phantoms moved to hide behind the building and other units shuffled into better positions. The unharmed Crone, however, was not content to sit back. Shadowy fingers reached out towards the Palace Guard and visions of eternal suffering filled the noble warriors thoughts as strength was leached from their arms. The once unshakeable warriors found themselves temporarily overwhelmed with fear (wavered).
Elves Turn 6
The waver on the Palace Guard could prove crucial as it prevented them advancing to claim Ben’s central section worth 2 points. I would need my Dragon to kill the Void Weavers to get the win this turn.
Shooting saw the Phantoms banished by the combination of one mage and the Seaguard. The King once more disordered the Crone. Crucially the Dragon killed the Void Weavers putting the Elves in the lead. But the Twilight Kin were not ready to give up yet.
Twilight Kin Turn 7
The Crone once more tried to incapacitate the Palace Guard but having conquered their fears the Elves shrugged off the evil one’s efforts. Leading by example the Twilight General issued a challenge and charged the Elven Lord and his dragon but it was in vain.
Elves Turn 7
Nothing was left for the Elves but to move to maximise the sections under their control and the game was over.
A 4-1 victory for the Elves.
Conclusions and Jubilations:
I’m only going to briefly talk about the game itself and then review what I thought of the new Twilight Kin units I faced. The game had quite volatile dice with lots of damage one minute, none the next and a big nerve roll out of nowhere after lots of low ones. I think it probably evened out but it’s hard to tell for sure.
I think I managed to put Ben in a tricky spot with my deployment, by placing a dragon last on a fairly empty flank he ended up with one flank badly outnumbered and my Dragon could just fly off leaving his units stranded. That was probably the deciding factor that ended up shifting the game in my favour.
Twilight Kin Units Review
I’ll go down the list Ben took as I don’t any other information on the rest of the Twilight Kin list:
Corsair Voidwalkers Horde: Without any upgrades these guys are a cheapish (for elves) block of nerve but pretty limited. I really like all the upgrades individually and together but then you’ve then got a fairly expensive unit with no crushing strength. I think they’re a useful unit but you’ll pay for what you get so you need to get it maximising whatever attributes you give it.
Corsair Fleetwardens Troop: I’ve only seen the troop version of this unit but I really like it with the two upgrades, I hadn’t originally picked up the unit had phalanx but I think that it’s a good value light unit, CS, plenty of attacks decent nerve, def 5 for a turn plus phalanx can make this unit a real thorn in the opposition’s side.
Voidtouched Weavers regiment: Lightning bolt on a unit is nice but lacks the flexibility of individuals running 6 inches backwards whilst lobbing the lightning bolts over their shoulder. They seem a little pricey for a unit that’s fairly bad in combat most units at that level have some kind of combat prowess. They’re also irregular which seems a touch harsh but apparently irregular is a common theme for Twilight Kin (which seems an odd choice for a major release).
Bound Phantoms Troop: it’s long been my opinion that any speed 10 nimble flying unit should cost a minimum of 100pts even with terrible stats. Unfortunately that’s not the case so Phantoms are excellent value IMO fearless, def 4, 12 attacks at Melee 4+ is a bargain light unit.
Bound Ravagers Horde: very similar to Ogre Boomers who have always seemed decent to me, stealthy is very nice if caught in a shooting war. Irregular again seems harsh.
Impalers: they feel solid, the big shield can be really good when played well but it can also be exploited as can their speed 5. They’re not very expensive and that’s largely reflected in their abilities IMO, Fearless is always a big plus in my book and probably makes them slightly better than average value.
Twilight Assassin: I like this guy a lot he’s fragile but comes with a lot of rules. I think Ben was too hasty using him to stop my Seaguard from shooting and he would have been an issue for me late game if he’d been held in reserve a little longer.
Summoner Crone: Ok rant time. These guys are ludicrously under pointed. They’re 90pts they should be 135pts+. I don’t know why but adding damage on to other spells seems to be criminally under appreciated in points values. Weakness 4 doing piercing (1) damage is at least as good as lightning bolt 5 on damage alone (no cover, & can cast into combat makes up for at lest 1 less dice at a minimum). I remember not so long ago lightning bolt was public enemy number 1 (or at least top 3) now it’s equivalent is getting given away virtually free. They also come with inspire so they’re just fantastic all round units which make me want to take a hard line on wage negotiation next time I meet with the Elven Mages’ Union.
Soulbane on Nightmare: one of many nice nimble monster units in the game at around 150pts he’s got everything you’d want and expect plus Dread’s a great rule. Twilight Kin seem to have a lot of irregular units so I’m guessing you might not see multiples of these guys in lists as much as Twilight generals might prefer.
As I said I don’t know the full twilight kin list but Ben’s usually pretty good at finding filthy options and with the exception of the Crone there doesn’t seem anything particular out of line with the good units you find in other lists.
Ben’s conclusions:
We’ll that didn’t go as badly as I’d thought it would. Playing Paul’s list is always fun, he knows what he likes and he knows how to use it! I don’t usually have as much shooting which meant I was fighting against Paul and my own inexperience. I don’t think the list is anywhere near optimal and it still gave him a close game. The first thing I did wrong was throw away my assassin and forget to use the Torc. Also it’s worth noting that the blade doesn’t combine with weakness which was one of my ‘cunning plans’. The four hordes all did a job but their damage was a little underwhelming. The fleetwardens were unlucky not to hold the Drakon charge after Paul overlooked their phalanx but I think they’re a great chaff unit.
My phantoms got lucky not getting disordered by the Silverbreeze charge turn two which allowed to perform a useful block but realistically they shouldn’t have been placed in charge range. The Voidweavers did ok and I think the level of shooting was about right. The Ravagers didn’t do what I expected them to but that was as much down to poor dice rolls as their capabilities. I didn’t use the Soulbane on Nightmare well and I think he could have really played a much bigger role. The stars were the crones but I could have guessed that before the game started. Paul did well using the hills and bane chant to undo the good work of weakness but it defiantly had a major impact during the battle. I didn’t feel the terrain was too bad but in a game of inches it added up. The fact I’d taken a lot of unit strength really helped, in other lists this will probably be lower, if I throw in some US2 monsters I should be able to get close, after the new book comes out there might be more monsters with high US to counter but for now I’ll try and take advantage.
Looking at Paul’s army: I really liked the storm wind cav troops, I think the elves have enough big hitters and with 4 fast chaff/utility units really offers a lot of flexibility. The only advice (coz I’m if anything overqualified to give it) is that Paul could swap the mounted king for the kings champion but other than that I’d say this is as good an elf list as I’ll face. Even the lack of glade stalkers compared to other lists didn’t seem to be an issue.
The game was close and at various points I felt it was going my way but I just couldn’t land the killer punch. I usually feel going second in control gives a big advantage but I wanted to get my shooting in first. Great game as always and well played Paul.
Ben’s new list:
Now I’ve played a game with the list I’ve made a few changes. The first thing I felt I needed to upgrade was to bring in more speed and hitting power so I tried to really hard to find the points and fitted in the Voidlurker, I could have upgraded it to the improved version but I wanted to sprinkle a few items on units so went with the vanilla version. The Voidweavers were ok but I didn’t feel blown away with them so I dropped both units and brought in some Voidskiffs which added shooting but also a bit more combat. La’theal was the next unit to come in, dropping two weavers took 16 shots away but with her damaging wind blasts and the skiffs broadside I felt I was on par and she has the added advantage of providing some movement spells, aura stealthy and the bane chant which would help boost my combat unit’s damage output. The compromise I had to make was to swap out a horde of Corsair Voidwalkers for a regiment of Fleetwardens, I think they’ll be nearly as good with the upgrades so overall I think it’s a fair swap. I’ve managed to keep at 14 drops, with 41 shots and added a bit of speed. Let’s see how it works next time!
