The Herd - Clash of Kings 2022

In an infantry heavy force, would a couple of troops of Longhorns with Rally (1 - Herd only) behind the army be worthwhile? It’s expensive but you’d probably want these units screened anyway. I think they could stack (upto +2) but not sure if they would Rally themselves?

They’d Rally (1) each other if within 6", which is helpful given the targets on them. Longhorn troops are pretty sweet hammers in themselves, so nice to have hanging around to give rally and then counter-punch.

I think the bigger question here is how much infantry-heavy Herd armies are going to be a thing? The strength of Herd, like Masters-level strength, is bleeding edge speed, very little of which a) has the Herd tag or b) is going to be hanging around within 6" of Longhorns all that often. Most Herd armies I’ve ever seen on the table have one unit of infantry (Spirit Walker horde). Some Trackers and Herd heroes might show up now, but the real beneficiaries of the Longhorns are going to be the one Stampede unit in every army, assuming it’s operating in 6" of the Longhorns, and if players can be convinced to run some Brutes, which I’m not 100% are good. I mean, I like them, but I think it’s the baked in Fury that makes them relevant, as they aren’t fast enough to aggro so are swinging back. These hordes are probably the real combo with Longhorns.

So I guess this is me saying that if your freshly revived Herd army is running the new stuff (Stampede and/or Brutes to go with your one Spirit Walker horde), Longhorns probably look real good. If you’re taking Herd purely for the ultra fast stuff, I’m not sure paying all those points for Longhorns rally buff is all that important? Tho +2 to your Spirit Walker horde and two orbiting chaff / counter-punches is probably ok.

EDIT: I’m trying to make Obviously Good Herd lists right now and I definitely don’t have the points for the Longhorns! The Great Migration Chieftain is far more of an auto-include than they are, and I’m struggling there as well. Here is the most brutal Herd list I could come up with:

The Herd
Spirit Walkers (Horde) 265
Lycans (Horde) 255
Lycans (Horde) 255
Minotaur Chariots* (Regiment) 210
– The Stampede [1] 30
Harpies* (Troop) 90
Harpies* (Troop) 90
Harpies* (Troop) 90
Beast of Nature 150
– Upgrade with Wings, increasing Speed to 10 and gaining Fly and Nimble 40
– Increase Attacks to 7 15
Beast of Nature 150
– Upgrade with Wings, increasing Speed to 10 and gaining Fly and Nimble 40
– Increase Attacks to 7 15
Avatar of the Father [1] 285
Moonfang [1] 210
Great Chieftan 95
– Horn of the Great Migration [1] 15

Total Unit Strength: 19
Total Units: 12
Target Points: 2300
Core (Target%): 2300 (100%)

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I think it’s interesting to talk about what the most competitive builds will be, but that shouldn’t be the sole focus. I’ve seen more lists in the wild that are far from optimal than tuned for tournaments. People fielding legacy armies and all sorts of other armies

(I posted Keith Conroy’s list as I thought it was interesting as an exemplar of tournament Herd. I know your lists feature a fair amount of Herd infantry. I’ve got what’s basically a legacy Beastmen army.)

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What I love about KOW as opposed to essentially all other mini wargames I’ve played is that you can take a wide variety of different stuff from a faction and potentially do well. If KOW didn’t have this internal balance I doubt I would have stuck with it. However there’s a limit to how far this mantra goes. List building is an important part of this game too, and there are unit types that are better suited for the edition than others, which some factions have more or less access to. I’m happy that 3E isn’t the ‘elite flyers + shooting’ meta that 2E was, but it definitely favors ‘fast scoring elites + magic/shooting’ - essentially 2E but opened up to include more fast elites and more of the shooting phase.

To say it another way: I effectively never see Herd on the tabletop, locally or at tournaments or in battle reports. My guesses as to why (in order):

  1. Herd struggle in the larger meta due to lack of unit types favored by the edition (and did so in 2E as well). I’m really pumped that Herd took Masters, but I knew without seeing it what his list looked like. That list I posted bums me out as well, as I’m pretty sure it’s the 2300 point list for this edition. Given how shallow it is, and how much it relies on legendary options, doesn’t say a lot for the faction’s internal balance for the edition.
  2. Mantic doesn’t make models for Herd (tho you could totally do Nature Herd with lican and etc), so most Herd armies are going to be legacy armies or created for the purpose (the latter of which is going to be rare thanks to #1)
  3. Not many WHFB Beastmen armies a) existed and b) made the jump to KOW. Herd as an army list doesn’t do a super great job of simulating the Beastmen experience of ambushing and all that, while AOS and I’m guessing 9th Age do a passable job (tho I hear Beasts of Chaos are pretty bad in AOS … sorta like in WHFB :grimacing:)

I’m sure we will see more Herd armies post-COK22, but almost totally because they’re getting access to more units that are better at playing the edition (#2 + #3 above aren’t going to change! Tho #4 Access to Beastmen Models is always increasing, thanks in large part to 3D printing - shoutout to Clay Beast Creation for the best of them). Which is why I’m pretty sure the Herd we will see will trend towards the ultra-fast end of (the huge list of) available units, because the Herd players who left in 3E, like my clubmate, did so because their army didn’t play the edition well. Tho I guess since they left they weren’t playing true nosebleed speed, so maybe a nice mix of infantry + fast stuff is on the menu? :thinking:

Coincidentally it’s why I’m still excited to keep playing infantry-heavy Herd, because I like special things, and I’m betting that it remains quite the special thing :wink:

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Sp6 and pathfinder makes infantry lists viable in herd if in no other army!

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(That’s certainly why I’m here :goat: )

The topic on Keith Conroy’s list:

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I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there about the prevalence of Herd or infantry armies. I’ve said in a couple of other topics that it would be great if Mantic made a plastic Faun/Satyr infantry kit for FoN.

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Veil of Shadows could also be added to the bubble if you were getting shot up on the way in.

The Herd out range most other infantry, with some exceptions. If a large portion of it were spears, this could help handle a lot of the faster units.

SW or Warrior troops for chaff might be worth a go too, any Panthers and Harpies could go on the flanks.

Hi,

I’m pretty surprised the lists you share. I’ve been all this edition playing heavy infantry units army backed with a couple of fast units to threat flanks and they usually give me good result.

With COK22 just changed the chariots with the brutes and the beast of nature with the avathar of the father. Also tried to fit the new chieftain but to include it I give up the healing gladewalker and not convinced the aura worths so much.

I paste the last list I tried so you can share your thoughts.


the herd 2

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Very nice, balanced list. I like Spirit Walker troops, and Longhorn regiments are a nice way to spread around the rally while also doing work.

I’ve never considered a Gladewalker Druid, but the double buffs they received are nice. I do find the cost hard to justify, as you’re right, it feels like they compete in the same slot as the Great Chieftain.

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@zakarias1989 Nice list! I also like the SW troops and potential for max Rally. I’d be tempted to try and squeeze in at least one more Herd infantry unit, to take advantage of it all.

In a list without any elementals, the GW Druid doesn’t feel like great value, as you can’t use its two new rules.

You could have a very hard-hitting fast flank led by the Avatar - though it’s about half your points!

Up to now, I always ran one with Shroud of Saint for healing (7) but witht the COK I’ve swaped for amulet of fireheart and Celestial restoration. In any case, I agree that now probably worths more the Chieftain with aura.

About the avatar, I did yesterday a second chance and was quickly wiped out but it was mainly my fault:

But properly screened with harpies and supporting lycans I think it still has great potential hunting enemy cavalry.

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On running Herd infantry - I found this article on KoM interesting and think there are some good ideas on using infantry there.

The KoM list in the article would be tricky for Herd to face (plus a bit too much spam for me, but that’s personal opinion).

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Should be an interesting listen.

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what says about the herd?

That he’s swapping out a BoN and a Druid with the Shroud for a horde of Scorchwings and a WC/Dread Chieftain with Wings. Also describes how he ran the Masters list.

He then muses briefly on hammer and chaff infantry with Longhorns.

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There’s a long intro - you could listen from 15min in for chat on the meta, and about 55min in for specifically Herd talk.

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Hello @MarkG,
thanks I will listen :slight_smile: I would like to try how scorchwings work but right now I can’t imagine which model could fit in my beast of chaos tematic army.
In any case, yesterday I tried the list a bit changed (adding a beast of nature and removing the centaurs and magic item on minotaurs to fit it) and I think it worked fine. Next time I will try to play the beast and the avatar on different sides of the table. I only fear how to inspire the beast in that case; maybe replacing the chieftain with a centaur?

A photo of my deployment against the order of the green lady with some proxies:

And how I gain the hill on first turn and threat middle of the field (what in the end granted me the victory):

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For Scorchwings? (Edit: on reflection, I really like the archers but I think the discs would probably look more out of place)


(only in a GW legacy army)

Interesting to see the deployment photos. With the chaff and the extra range on the flyers, it looks like you’re in a good position for the battle.

I’d be tempted to keep the BoN on the same flank too, within the Father’s Very Inspiring range.