Twilight Kin V3 tactics and discussions

Army lists and Tactics
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Hello everyone !

Sorry for my french accent ahah.

So today I bought the new Uncharted Empire book and took a look to my TK.

What a surprise , this is really a big change comparing to before.

Exit Hydra, pegasus, TK on abyssal mount, chariots and Dragon ! Sooo saaad for lots of my minis :pensive:

Welcome lots of new stuff.

As a reminder we have access to Main list:
Kindred Tallspears, Kindred Archers, Kindred Gladestalkers*, Silverbreeze Cavalry*, Therennian Sea Guard*, Bolt Thrower, Dragon Breath, Army Standard Bearer, Elven Prince.

and to specific units:
Impalers, Blade Dancers, Cronebound Gargoyles*, Cronebound Butchers*, Cronebound Shadowhounds*, Cronebound Abyssal Horsemen, Cronebound Needle-fangs*, Cronebound Fiends*, Cronebound Mind-screech, Cronebound Shadow-hulk, Cronebound Banshee, Cronebound Archfiend, Twilight Assassin, Soulbane, Summoner Crone and Mikayel[1]

What do you think about these changes ? What new armies will look like ?

Thori

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So Iā€™ll say it: I really appreciate that chariots are gone. I am pumped to see what Kin players take now, instead of just assuming itā€™ll be another round of chariot legions and dragons.

[SPOILER: I think the answer is Cronebound Abyssal Horsemen regiments + Summoner Crones. With the toning down of Mounted Sons, CAH are trending as the new high tier cav to beat, and in Kin they benefit from that sweet, sweet 18" mega-Drain Life heal from the Crone, making them a grinding force to be reckoned with their inbuilt regen!]

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After few days crying the disappearance of some entries lets try to see what we can do with our army.

I agree with you concerning the summoner crone:

_They are magicians with inspiring for all Crone stuff which is a lot of units now.
_They have a 4 DEF and stealthy which is resilient.
_But the only Damaging spell is Drain Life with 6 feet range. They have a bonus with it so they can heal Crone units up to 18 feet range. Cool but they still need to cast it at a 6 feet range.
_They also have banechant and Hex.

So few questions:
_Is Hex something really cool to use ? It only works with magic. What is the best threshold to use it ? We have summoner with Drain life and also the new monster (Cronebound Mind-screech) and the Banshee. Not sure that it is worth to use it with summoners. Maybe we can just give the magic item Tricksterā€™s Wand to a non magic Hero ? And then blast a single unit with side casters.
_Still on Hex: we are agree that Hex can work with drain life and heal better a unit: 2 damages = 2 heals ?
_Drain life: so they want us to use it because there is a bonus with Crone units. We also have a special entry Scepter of Shadows[1] to boost it to Drain life (9). What do you think about this spell ? The summoner has two options: stick behind a crone unit and cast the spell when Crone unit is engaged or act as a solo hero (with Horse, Boots of Levitation). All this stuff seems a bit very costy ?
_Veil of Shadows[1]: this spell is Stealth aura. Do we use it with Sacred Horn for 9 feet range ? Is it worth for an army with lots of Stealth unit ? It seems to be designed to protect Elfes units versus range attacks. Is it really needed ? V3 Meta is really new but shooting looks less important rather than in V2 for the moment.

What do you think about summoners ? I really want to use 2 of them maybe three in a 2300 points list.

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I decided to take a spin of some Twillight Kin last night and ended up testing the following (2k points):

2x Cronebound Abyssal Horsemen regmients(1 with striding boots, the other with pathfinder)
1x Cronebound Fiend Horde (Brew of sharpness)
2x Blade Dancer regiments
4x Cronebound Gargoyle Troops

Summoner Crone

  • Wings of Honeymaze, Scepter of Shadows, Veil of Shadows

2x Summoner Crones on Horse with Banechant

I think this list can be quite strong, except that the Blade Dancer regiments lacks inspiring at the moment, which can be fixed with removing them entirely exchange the one fiend unit with Abyssal Horsemen for about the same points and then just add butchers or fiends.

The list in itself did work, except that I was rather impatient and did lots of mistakes in the battle (Sometimes I just get too eager and go for silly charges). Still I managed to draw it as my Crones were left to drain out a lot of the Nightstalkers army.

I really like the crone army, but I feel that I lack ranged attacks (as drain life really is so up and close that itā€™s hard to call it ranged). Iā€™ll try out some alternative lists, maybe Silverbreeze could fit such a fast paced list.

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Howā€™d you like the dancers? On paper they seem a little weak, although Iā€™m still planning on running 2x regs as well, as Iā€™ve got model plans for them. Plus in your case they do buck the Cronebound keyword (shadowhounds to replace maybe?)

Cheers for the feedback, nice triple crones. The winged one is smart, get that big drain where you need it.

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They are like most Berzerkers , they provide a punch. I havenā€™t used them yet as I am still building my Twilight Kin, but I like my 1/2 elf Berserkers in my Northern Alliance Army quite a lot. They dish out a ton of damage and are not as fragile as you might think due to the fearless nerve.

Blade dancers are a bit expensive comparatively (25 pts more for a rg than NA 1/2 elf Berserks). They are elite so a reg will score about 2 more hits on average than the 1/2 elves - pretty good. Blade dancers are 1 less nerve at -/16 - still not bad. The 7 move is pretty much a wash, or just slight advantage as the '14 charge range is more consistent than the 12" + wild charge. Overall, I consider them slightly less valuable for the points but still very effective. For me, they are a must buy because they unlock - and that is Twilightā€™s biggest build problem.

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Hello guys, thank you for your feedback. It is really interesting.

Madprofessor, I have the same feeling about the dancers. Ok they can unlock but they seem really costy too.
I prefer to use Tallspears to unlock or Abyssal Horsemen. Is someone using bowmen ?

Still about the dancers and their cost, I prefer to use Butchers horde which are way more resilient with def 5 , stealthy and -/18. We are pretty sure they will touch one combat (and maybe will have some heal from Summoner). I donā€™t like the All-In effect of dancers during the charge with TC(1) and nothing after.

Did someone use the new shadowhounds ? (maybe a pure Nightstakker player ?). They look really cool with high mvmt, stealthy, regen, lots of attacks. Troops or regiments ?

Soulbane: I am a bit sad that we donā€™t have any mount option except horse (Fiend, dragon?). But they have Dread and stealthy too. I really want to test them (maybe two in my list). What about Mykayel ?

I have two games planned the 22th of december versus a ratkin friend (really hard army to fight). Iā€™ll do a feedback.

Thank you for your time.

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Shadow hounds seem like a fantastic buy for the points. 20 attacks, 9 move, regen, stealthy, nimble. Nerve of 14/16 with 4+ armor is not great, but not bad for a kin unit. For a regiment @185 thatā€™s 65 points cheaper than the abyssal horsemen - which I think are over-costed. The horsemen are slower, have fewer attacks and are not nimble. To compensate they get CS1, and one better to hit and defense. Meh. Shadowhounds are a better buy by far IMO. They will help provide numbers and are somewhat expendable at their cost, they are nearly as tough defensively, and maybe on equal footing with their speed and stealthy. They are probably better offensively because of movement 9 and nimble - more flanks. Again, I like my Tundra wolves in Northern Alliance a lot, but Shadow hounds have regen, more attacks, higher nerve and stealthy for 5 points more! Killer deal for the points!

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Iā€™m excited by the possibilities of a shadowhound light hammer. Current plan is to run 2x troops of them tho, for chaffing as well as deep zone work or flanking.

Re: Archers, they seem pretty bad? But Iā€™m looking to run 1-2 regiments of them, for unlocks (the eternal struggle!) and I guess backfield objective holding or whatever.

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@Boss_Salvage, in that very match, I used them rather poorly. They got the task of taking out units which are meant to be sacrificed more or less, and then doppelgangers got in to kill off both units. It was however my mistake.

I actually had a match earlier today where I went for an infantry list:
2x Spear elf Regiments
2x Impaler Regiments
2x Blade dancers Regiments
1x Cronebound Abyssal Horsemen Regiment w/ striding boots
2x Cronebound Gargoyle troops
Army Standard Bearer w/lute of darkness
Summoner Crone w/Wings, Scepter of Shadows and Veil of Shadows
Soulbane on Horse w/ Mace of Crushing and Screamshard
Twillight ASsassin w/ScreamShard

The match was against the same Nightstalker list as previous, but this time I rolled so hot dice that even after doing a mistake, the battle became a wipe out of the Nightstalkers, and my Bladedancers were actually the units which took out almost everything.

I loved having the spear elf regiments to just be there and able to take on charges on each flank, making the void lurker on one side try something else than them, and the shadowhounds(?) got bound into combat and lost against the spearelves. I think it might be best to have banechant instead of Veil of Shadows in such a list on the crone though, but otherwise I did enjoy that list quite a lot, and bladedancersā€¦ so much damage from them when they get the engagements they need. -/16 nerve means that they can take on a charge from some units, especially with inspiration close by. I do find them somewhat costly compared to Succubus units, but the sheer amount of damage on a charge (especially from a hill) means you can actually wipe out units quicklyā€¦ especially with the backup of an assassin/soulbane/crone with drain life.

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As for archers, Iā€™ll never be using archers with 5+ to hit, especially not without steady aim. I find them a waste of points and would rather just have spearelves.

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@Iwin and Boss

Yeah, elf archers are a real disappointment. Fantasy tradition dictates they should be the best shooters in the game. Ha! I heard there were some balance issues in 2e, but they got Spanked with the Nerf bat to the point where it is unlikely that we will see any elves with bows at all, ever, anywhere in KoWā€¦ because they suck (no point mincing wordsā€¦ they suck). Which is just weird because every veteran mini gamer everywhere has a closet full of elf archers, and every model maker has elf archers. Oh well.

Overall, I find 3e rosters to be really well balanced. Amazingly well balanced! Point systems are impossibly hard to get right. But elf archers slipped through the cracks and got Nerfed right out of the game.

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The real difference between Abyssal Horsemen and Shadowhounds is the capacity ā€œto takeā€ a charge on themself.

Horsemen have the Def 5+ and the CS(1) which is a real difference. They can have the Anvil role versus the hounds. Hounds have the mobility. In a full cavalry army (or almost) they can be mixed.

I agree for archers; they just suck, sorry for the expression.

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@thori: Mikayel is way too many points in my opinion.

Yes, he will do his job against heroes, monsters and titans, but in all other engagements he is just a soulbane with extra attack and extra crushingā€¦ and can soak a bit more damage. Yes, he should cost some points for all that, but 260 points is just 10 points away from a void lurker or other big badasses which can do a LOT more in a battle.

There are way too many other good choices to take than Mikayel.

@Madprofessor, yes the shadowhounds are really great. I still feel like they will so quickly swing at 5+ and such because of terrain, phalanx, entanglement and the like, which quickly turns the fight around against them. It was exactly what my normal spear elf regiment did in my last match, taking them on and could have taken them out alone. Of course, when they do get that flank though, thatā€™s juicy! I really like those hounds, but they are more of a light cav for sure, who need their charges more than the abyssal horsemen.

I really love the Abyssal Horsemen. They are an allround unit which can take quite a few punches, and deal them rather quickly. With the regen they have and the amount of drains the crones can do to heal them upā€¦ if played well, they can be close to invincible.

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