I see no problem with those elves. Are they infantry? If they are, then anything bigger then them can’t hide behind them, wall or no wall on multibase. He can put Empire State Building on multibase and still it wouldn’t matter.
Sure, dragging wall or tree or whatever over battlefield can look little silly, but I don’t think it is a headache.
In my time of playing WHFB, 9 out of 10 players used true line of sight to gain advantage or to deny any advantage to the opponent, where is it hiding with large units behind smaller terrain or hiding units in forest and claiming that all can see and shoot.
if you actually play KoW which I am becoming increasingly sure you don’t, you will find that you need to move all around the table to measure angles, distances and move models on your opponent’s side. So I’m afraid that lame argument won’t wash.
You keep bringing up the narcissism comment, which was basically a throwaway line but which is starting to make me think really hit a nerve with you. As narcissists can be dangerous people, I won’t take that any further.
I’d be rather less annoyed about this if you weren’t actually suggesting that tournament rules be created to stop the thing you don’t like. We’ve now narrowed this down to a dislike of getting up, so it seems entirely motivated by laziness at this point.
You’ve decided to make a bizarre argument ad absurdum about a christmas tree, which seems rather desperate - nowhere have we been talking about people passing off bizarre things as dioramas, Mantic have a policy of minimum model count for admission to tournaments so you can’t get away with sticking a single goblin on a horde base etc. But a group of elves on a temple wall, yep thats totally fine.
We can perhaps agree that not all diorama basing is equally attractive, and some things do look slightly absurd, but this is a subjective opinion on aesthetics and there’s no need to drag line of sight or whatever into that.
I’m afraid you do come off rather badly as someone who’d like to restrict other people’s fun for personal subjective reasons and for that, you deserve no praise.
I think we can all agree that there will always be people who like to see Dioramas on the (imaginary) Battlefield and other people (me included) who prefer them in display cases to admire the skill and creativity of the person behind it.
This is neither religion nor politics, in the end it’s just a game and everyone should play it the way it’s most fun for them
@ThaneBobo That’s been my experience too, even in casual games. There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s all part of the game and I would expect nothing less in tournament play.
I find these large bases to be unsportsmanlike from my experience with how many games I’ve seen and lost (or won) myself to “Oh, there’s a guy behind that piece of terrain?” Not only in KoW but in many other systems too. Being a physical game we have to make allowances to make it run smoothly and one of those I consider to be an easy to read state of play. If a player is able to game the system, with large terrain pieces they will win games they wouldn’t have without them being there. In casual play or a convention game that’s fine, they’re a different kettle of fish to someone paying a fee and potentially losing out on prizes because their opponent did something to make the game state less readable. If you were playing Chess and between your opponent’s turns he put both of his arms across the middle of the board you would have a similar situation to this one. You could always stand and walk to the side of the board to see round them but who thinks that’s reasonable? In a competitive setting the visual elements should be balanced against the game’s function as a game. Miniatures often make that much easier because you can see all the same units look the same, instead of having to read the name and weapons on blocks of wood.
Likewise the height of these things can make measuring things difficult. If you have a close measure and you have to measure over the top of one of these the visual distance changes the accuracy. Measuring an inch off the table and 5 is a big difference. I’m the type of player who always goes with close enough in those situations instead of wasting time over a potential couple of millimeters one way or the other. If it was in a big tournament and there’s hundreds of quid in prize support on the line, those small measurements start to matter to people. Having a base degenerate the functionality of the game becomes a big issue there
You ever see a chess board equaling the size of a Kings of War field? They have one at the large library in town, and people sure do walk around it all the time! Because its way bigger than most chess boards… just like KoW boards. There’s no direct equivalence between your chess example and the game we’re talking about.
You seem very concerned with a hypothetical tournament player who doesn’t pay attention losing out, and I can see that argument. The solution could be banning huge bases, or perhaps it could be encouraged that people do more of the sportsmanship thing, with the occasional reminder of “Hey, this model is here”, which is likely to be less hassle to achieve and more effective. And it solves both problems, of the hypothetical tournament player and of the people who just wanna model something cool.
Given that I can hide my Liche Queen behind my entirely regular horde of Revenants, if my opponent doesn’t pay attention and I don’t mention it… communication is actually kind of good and useful.
Since KoW doesn’t use true line of sight or similar rules there is very little scope for modeling for advantage, unlike in other wargames - where potentially that could be an issue there are restrictions. For example war machines can use exceptional base size, but the firing arch is limited, while there are a couple of units (that could otherwise use EBS) that are explicitly restricted to a maximum.
My only real concern over modelling are i) where it is very unclear what the unit it II) its inconsistent what the unit is “this unit of xxx are zombies, this unit of (identical models) are soul reavers”.
Extravagant modeling is more likely to cause me problems with my own units than an opponent’s - as I tend to pay attention to them!
2d terrain has caused more issues in gaming than walls on infantry bases - in regard to the latter point, yes, I’m biased as have a couple of armies modeled as going through ruined cities, but have never had any issues from other players
Oh, I was not talking about tactical acumen. I was talking about skewering rules for true line of sight for advantage and sometimes it went to pure cheating. Shooting from forests and wizards in units, that was most common.
As for modeling for inconvenience, I remember two times in tournaments. Once one guy from Italy brought beautiful Chaos army with Forge World dragon. That thing was so big it could not fit the deployment zone, so the guy put it on the plinth which was 5cm width. Surprisingly enough, it didn’t fell over. It was brilliant model, but not for regular gaming.
Other time was when some guy brought half painted Dark Elf army with hydra toy which was half original paint, half repainted and on the notepad because the dude didn’t have original base.
There were more examples, but none of it effected game play, only effected visual appeal of the game, just as badly made terrain or unpainted minis. I had more problems with cheaters and good thing our tournaments weren’t even close to such huge prizes as people would draw knives at each other.
