What would you like from Mantic to let historical miniatures find a place in Kings of War?
I think that this is the idea for the Kingdoms of Men list (Rhordia for old GW Empire minis) and should be the primary function of the KoM list.
How well does it do though? Can the list be designed better with that end in mind?
Is one list that offers a broad range of troop types and leaves the theme to you the way to do it; I think so, do you?
I think the list is missing some things, but covers most troop types that it needs to.
The main thing it’s missing is mixed formations, as used by Persians, Assyrians, Warring States Chinese, India, Alexander (after invading India) and Medieval armies.
Cavalry that can charge and shoot and charge is missing too, although chariots might do.
Both of those are notoriously difficult to balance though.
Other things to include? I think things that need new rules and/or are relatively rare don’t need to be there; like war wagons or unique troops.
I used The Herd rather than KoM for my Celtic themed army, which fitted the theme better, (apart from the chariots which needed shooting option, but are more heavy hitters than their historic equivelent.
Lots of Druid Nature Magic, Heroes on horse or chariot, lots of spear waving core units, and the icing on the cake, the special which makes characters have Dualist option.
What was it that you needed for the Celtic list that KoM didn’t offer?
Are there units you wished KoM had or were you mainly after the mythical nature theme in herd?
Kingdoms of Men is a viable option, but for three points: a Chariot riding Hero … Hero with Duelist and the Druid (but their Wizard is a close second) . However, i’d be interested to compare the two armies point for point as the Herd seem more expensive
I’ve just compared the two armies, and the KoM aresignificantly cheaper. They are slightly slower on foot, and don’t have pathfinder but do have indomitable will instead .
If i remove the Woodland critters, GurPanthers ect, and compare the other units for the KoM equivelant, the Herd would cost me 1850 compared to KoM of about 1780 .
the part that gets me about these arguments is how ‘mixed formations’ must be a single unit, and can’t be made of a horde and some troops. I know that historically, that might not be how it happened, but in the rules of KoW you really want it like that. Your alternative is a Sea Guard type unit, and you don’t want that! Hits slightly worse than either a horde of Tallspears or Archers but never at once, and nearly costs as much as a horde of Palace Guard…
for a period of time, the combined unit was the main battle unit as black powder weapons was the main weapon of the infantry but needed additional man with spears/helbards/pikes to protect them against cavalry
(this was not necessary any more after the bayonett was invented)
to easy solution to this is having Rifles Regiments/Hordes (no Troops of course) with Phalanx, were you have the half of the size shooting models being prodected by pole-arms
I’ve said similar things in other topics - I’m not optimistic about the future of non-Mantic miniature range lists. The general trend is to steer people towards their ranges. I can’t see them creating more units that they don’t make minis for, where you have to go to other manufacturers.
At some point, I think either they’ll create a KoM/Rhordia style range (tho quite a bit of competition out there) or KoM will be usurped by Basilea/Northern Alliance/Halflings.
Not trying to spoil anyone’s fun or stifle creativity.
If you created a KoM list with enough options, you could have your own game right there - a player-led KoW historicals.
A seaguard style KoM unit wouldn’t break things (they aren’t particularly popular in actual elf armies!) but mostly it’s a gameplay options having a couple of troops of archers in front on a spear horde does the same thing.
Wait for post CoK book in November as KoM are getting some buffs, but there are a number of things that true historical armies did that don’t really transfer over to a generic, non model supported, army
I would like some proper ligh infantry.
Nimble, maybe scout Sp5 low number of 12" attacks. Could represent a variety of weapons, taking the DBx approach of defining according to function rather than weapon.
Pavies and longbows would be cool, but not sure they’re needed. Same goes for grenadiers, which are from a later period anyway.
Use the mammoth profile for elephants.
What would you like to see for knights?
Unit plus artefact is already a lot of variety.
How would you do war wagons?
In historical rulesets I always feel like the effort from the writer far exceeds how often they’re actually used.
Mounted Scouts I feel could really benefit from having the scout ability. Would give them a useful role in the force.
The Kingdom of Men list has one powerful unit: Knights, everything else is nothing special and out performed by nearly everyone else, the one thing they have is that they are cheap, so can be fielded enmass.
It could be the biggest issue is that the list isn’t focused on one period of time, but rather trying to cram in as many time periods as possible. Doing so means that all the units are watered down for balance I imagine, but means they are a bit lacking.
i would agree with @Stonehorse 's comments, KoM are a bit like ‘all singing all dancing’ all encompasing army, with no real speciality power . a whole lot of very similar look kind of core units, with limited Fluff or Hammer or flying options for none HQ units.
i would like to mention for consideration the pros and cons of the scout rule though. Is it really that good? You can move a scout unit , pre starting , but that unit is at risk of getting flattened if your opponent charges you on turn one, and otherwise your scouts may get in the way of your own units when your turn comes around, as they tend to be poorly armoured shooty units that you dont really need in the thick of things