Adapting The Brotherhood to 3E

[arcticfox]

Hey guys,

Thanks again for all the warmth and helpful replies in my initial post on trying to figure out why The Brotherhood was split across two theme lists. This thread is a sample of the investigating I’ve been doing to understand our options in the new system.

If you guys like this example I’m happy to put in the work and do a deep dive into all of the units from The Brotherhood, along with suggestions on how to bring them into 3E. Of course, you may disagree with the analogs I’m suggesting here, which is perfectly fine. As with anything, how you choose to represent your units is entirely your call. This is just me throwing out my 2 cents’ on what seems to be the closest match.

2E Unit: Villein Plowshares (Horde)
Characterized by: Polearms, light armor
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Men-At-Arms

The Villein Plowshares represented the peasantry being mustered in defense of the realm. They’re relatively untrained, unskilled infantry that can hit hard.

In 2E, this unit was irregular, and had Crushing Strength (1), to represent the polearms.

Order of the Brothermark:
The best analog in the OotB theme list is the Villein Penitents. They share an almost identical statline, though they are a wee bit easier to waver now. They’re also a bit more expensive by 10 points. The Crushing Strength accounts for the polearms, and this unit looks to have the same basic strengths and weaknesses as its 2E predecessor.

Order of the Green Lady:
Unless you field them as Men-at-Arms Retainers, there is no direct analog in the OotGL theme list, though you can still get this unit into your force if you use Basileans as Allies and play them as Sisterhood Infantry. They too get the Crushing Strength(1) which matches the models’ polearms, along with a litany of special rules. It’s a regular infantry unit with a significantly better staline. The points cost is a big jump, but may be worth it.

Alternatively, you can use Kingdoms of Men as an allied force, in which case the best analog is the Pole-Arms Block. Better stats at a reasonable bump in cost gives you the same special rule.

Fluffwise, this is definitely a unit that will be more at home in the Order of the Brothermark lists. You can work it in as part of a Basliean or Kingdoms of Men ally if you’re playing Order of the Green Lady, but the points cost will be significant and will eat up a lot of that 25% max.

[arcticfox]

2E Unit: Villein Spearmen (Regiment)
Characterized by: Spears, light armor
Example Models in my army: Basilean Spear Phalanx customized with Bretonnian accessories

The Villein Spearmen represented professional peasant soldiers.

In 2E, this unit had Phalanx, to represent the bristling spear wall that spearmen units specialize at.

Order of the Brothermark:
The best analog in the OotB theme list is the Basilean Men-At-Arms Spearmen. They share an almost identical statline, though they have better Nerve. They’re also more expensive but for that you also get Iron Resolve in addition to Phalanx, which is retained.

Order of the Green Lady:
There is no direct analog in the OotGL theme list, (again, you could use them as Men-at-Arms Retainers) though you can still get this unit into your force if you use Basileans as Allies and play them as Men-At-Arms Spearmen, as above.

Alternatively, if you’re running Kingdoms of Men as your allies, you can use Spear Phalanx. Same stat line as the Basilean version, but without Iron Resolve, of course.

Spearmen is a basic infantry type that is more or less universal, so this isn’t a hard one to get, if it’s worth the points cost out of your 25%. My guess is we’ll probably only see this unit in OotB armies.

[arcticfox]

2E Unit: Villein Bowmen
Characterized by: bows, light armor, defensive stakes
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Peasant Archers

The Villein Bowmen represented peasants who were skilled in the longbow. Defensive stakes in the ground in front of the unit provide Phalanx to break up cavalry charges.

Order of the Brothermark:
The unit in the OotB list has an identical statline and is still called Villein Bowmen. They come in cheaper now by a significant margin, but they do lose Piercing(1). On the other hand, they also lose Reload, so the unit is more mobile in 3E.

Order of the Green Lady:
There is almost no direct analog in the OotGL theme list, as ranged weapons are generally absent from the basic options here. The exception is Naiad Heartpeiercers.… An irregular unit from Forces of Nature with a better statline but reduced range. You get back Piercing and get Steady Aim but you’ll pay dearly in points. Still, that’s better than having to calculate those points against an ally. Not a bad option if you’re okay with proxying.

If you go Basliea you’re going proxy, as Basliea is way too good for bows, preferring crossbows instead. You’ll get the usual Iron Resolve and you get Piercing back, but with Pot Shot your mobility isn’t going to be what it could have been. Still, you get a slightly better statline but you’ll pay the points for it

As a second option, you can use Kingdoms of Men as an ally and get a middle-of-the-road statline between the Basilean and OotB versions, with no interesting special rules.

Archers are archers, and there’s really not a whole lot of ways to make them sexy so this will probably be another unit we won’t see much of in OotGL lists owing to the almost total lack of low cost ranged options built into that theme.

[arcticfox]

2E Unit: Swain’s Villein Rangers
Characterized by: bows, troop size only
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Peasant Archers

Swain is a pain and he fights best in the rain. Even so, his unit in 2E came with a ton of special rules that made this tiny unit insanely points heavy for its size.

In 3E, he seems to have taken off to hang with the Eternal Watch and is not specifically listed as an option at this time. Maybe in a future supplement? For now, he can be fielded as a troop size unit of archers, going by the same commentary as above.

[arcticfox]

2E Unit: Villein Martyrs
Characterized by: Ratty equipment, light armor
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Grail Reliquae

The Villein Martyrs represented cults of peasants revering fallen knights with a nigh religious devotion. This was one of those weird fluff units that was more or less unique to the army, and thus appears most directly in the Order of the Green Lady theme.

Order of the Brothermark:
To get this unit into an OotB list you’ll need to do it with allies. Basilea doesn’t offer anything particularly fluffy here, so a unit of Men-at-Arms Swordsmen is as close as it’s going to get. At that point you may as well just field this unit as Villein Penitants.

On the other hand, Kingdoms of Men’s Fanatics is a good, fluffy option if you’re able to pay the severe points cost for them. You get a slightly improved statline over the option they present for OotGL, along with Crushing Strength and Wild Charge.

Order of the Green Lady:
This theme seems to catch most of the oddball units that characterized the original source material, and this unit isn’t an exception. The Men-at-Arms retainers are the match here, with a similar statline only now they can be wavered. The points dropped significantly and you’re swapping out Regeneration for Headstrong. You do get the option to add the Vial of Sacred Water for a slight points cost.

Unless you’re going allies, this unit is really your only option for human light infantry. It’s also an option for Villein Plowshares if you don’t want to do allies.

[arcticfox]

Well, that about does it for peasant light infantry. Let’s take a look now at peasant cavalry options.

2E Unit: Villein Reconnoiterers
Characterized by: spears, light armor
Example Models in my army: Mounted Sergeants from Deus Vult

The only light cavalry option available to The Brotherhood. It’s quick, nimble (because it has Nimble) and on the charge it gets Thunderous Charge(1) owing to the mass of the unit.

Order of the Brothermark:
Since it’s a fairly mundane unit we expect to see it in the OotB theme, and sure enough, there it is, now called Villein Skirmishers. Identical statline and special rules, it’s a bit cheaper than before, which is always nice.

Order of the Green Lady:
There’s no analog to this at all in the OotGL theme so if you want to use 'em, it’s time to ally. Kingdoms of Men has Mounted Sergeants which is nearly identical, but with slightly better Nerve. The points cost is bumped back up as well.

Running Basilea as an ally? Then maybe Sisterhood Panther Lancers is an option. A bit more glass cannon-y in the statline they come with a couple of additional special rules that make them stand out a bit more. Points are higher, of course, and that’s an issue when you have to observe that 25% limit.

[arcticfox]

2E Unit: Villein Initiates
Characterized by: lances, heavy armor
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Knights Errant

Called “villeins” but with the stats of knights, these guys were kind of an odd entry in the 2E list but we all know why they were there.

Oddly, even though something called “Paladin Initiates” are mentioned in the UE fluff, there’s no such unit in the theme lists or in Basilea. So what do you do with them?

Order of the Brothermark:
They can be any knight unit you want, though I’d recommend making them Paladin Knights. better stats than before and a commesurate higher cost, they do fine here. The only frustration may be if you’re already using a certain other knight type as Paladin Knights, but more on that later…

Order of the Green Lady:
They can be used as Order of the Brotherhood with the same caveat… If you already have a different unit serving as Order of the Brotherhood then you won’t need these guys to do it too. Now, if you’re allying with Basilea or Kingdoms of Men, they can be used as either Paladin Knights or Knights which are visually distinct from the ones you’re using as Order of the Brotherhood. But that’s a lot of hassle when you can just field them all as Order of the Brotherhood and call it a day.

[arcticfox]

Now let’s talk about the meat & potatoes of the army. Knights. Actual knights. Knights for days, Woody.

2E Unit: Order of the Brotherhood
Characterized by: lances, heavy armor
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Knights of the Realm

The backbone of a fluffy Brotherhood list is now the backbone of a fluffy Order of the Green Lady list. These are your basic knights, very much like similar factions have.

Order of the Brothermark:
There is the option to field them as Order of the Abyssal Hunt, but if you already have some of those and they’re visually distinct (as they should be) then you might want a different option. Paladin Knights are the obvious choice here. Identical statline with the addition of that Basilean Iron Resolve to make them a bit tougher for a slight points increase.

Order of the Green Lady:
These are your Order of the Brotherhood. Almost identical to their 2E selves, they are a bit cheaper since Valiant isn’t a thing anymore. Not much to say here, really. They do get an indirect upgrade because Headstrong is a beautiful thing.

2E Unit: Exemplar of the Brotherhood
Characterized by: lance, heavy armor
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Lord

As a single character, this ones’s easy to translate over. If you have a dedicated model to be an Exemplar of the Brotherhood, he translates directly into OotGL as an * Exemplar of the Brotherhood*. A points discount gets you the same statline with the bonus of being able to take a Vial of sacred Water.

For OotB forces, he fits nicely as an Exemplar Paladin for a serious upgrade of special rules and a commesurate points cost increase.

2E Unit: Exemplar Adjutant
Characterized by: Battle Standard

Translates directly to an Exemplar Adjutant for OotGL. Same stats, same cost for a mounted version. For OotB, he’s a Bearer of the Holy Icon, same stats and cost.

[arcticfox]

2E Unit: Order of the Abyssal Hunt
Characterized by: greatweapons, heavy armor
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Questing Knights

With the lower Thunderous Charge but the addition of Crushing Strength, the hint here is that these guys are using greatweapons rather than lances. Again, an oddball unit but we know why it’s here.

Order of the Brothermark:
They remain Order of the Abyssal Hunt here, with a modified statline. They seem to have found their shields, but get fewer attacks. Nerve isn’t quite as good but they get Iron Resolve, all at a slight points increase.

Order of the Green Lady:
They can be fielded as Order of the Brotherhood or Order of Redemption but I personally don’t like either option much. They’ll work, but the model doesn’t fit the stats if you’ve been using knights with greatweapons.
This is a pretty situational unit, and I’ve never actually seen one on the table except in my own army, even back when we called them Questing Knights.

2E Unit: Exemplar of the Abyssal Hunt
Characterized by: greatweapon, heavy armor

As another single character, this ones’s also easy to translate over. If you have a dedicated model to be an Exemplar of the Abyssal Hunt, he translates directly into OotB as an * Exemplar Hunter*. Same points gets you better Defense with the bonus of being able to take The Gauntlet.

For OotGL forces, he can be an Exemplar Redeemer or Exemplar of the Brotherhood, though the model’s weapon may not fit the theme.

More to come tomorrow…

Any feedback? Hopefully this is useful.

[FredOslow]

I appreciate your posts. I have an old knight army myself which I have not yet gotten around to repurposing. This helps me make a plan for them.

[arcticfox]

Glad they’re helpful!

Now where was I… Ah, Order of Redemption…

2E Unit: Order of Redemption
Characterized by: lances, heavy armor, fancier bling
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Grail Knights

Elitest of the elite, the magicalest of the magical, the blingiest of the blingy, It’s the Order of Redemption, now a part of the Order of the Green Lady.

Order of the Brothermark:
Basically, you have the same options as with the Order of the Brotherhood. There really isn’t a unit of knights in Basilea or the OotB that has an equivalent set of rules or stats, so basically they become a lesser version of themselves.

Order of the Green Lady:
Still known as Order of Redemption, they have exactly the same statline and special rules as before, but with a slightly lower points cost.

2E Unit: Exemplar Redeemer
Characterized by: lance, heavy armor
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Lord

Another easy translation. If you have a dedicated model to be an Exemplar Redeemer, he translates directly into OotGL as an Exemplar Redeemer. A points bump gets you the same statline with more Attacks and mount options.

For OotB forces, he fits nicely as an Exemplar Paladin, though it will feel like a downgrade…

[arcticfox]

2E Unit: Order of the Forsaken
Characterized by: lances, heavy armor, flying mounts
Example Models in my army: Bretonnian Pegasus Knights w/Reaper Bones conversions to make them female because Valkyries are awesome.

Knights on Wings, baby.

Order of the Brothermark:
Basically, the only working solution here would be to ally with a faction with a good equivalent… Because you can’t ally with Basilea to get access to the Elohi, which are a popular proxy for these. Kingdoms of Men has no help either, which means you’ll have to get exotic and basically be doing it solely to gain access to a unit that can creditably be represented by whatever models you used for the 2E Order of the Forsaken.

Order of the Green Lady:
Still known as Order of the Forsaken , they have exactly the same statline and special rules as before, but with a slightly lower points cost.

If this unit is really important to you, then it prettymuch forces you to go Order of the Green Lady.

2E Unit: Exemplar Forsaker
Characterized by: lance, heavy armor

This one becomes an Exemplar Redeemer, which has the option to give him a flying mount, with a slight points bump.

Again, no option for OotB.

[arcticfox]

Now let’s talk about heavier infantry options.

2E Unit: Water Elementals
Characterized by: Big wet blob monsters
Example Models in my army: A variety of Reaper Bones water elementals and similar.

I mean, they’re Water Elementals.

Order of the Brothermark:
The Ogre Palace Guard has a similar statline with a higher cost. Not a terrible match. Alternatively, other factions like Forces of Nature can be taken as allies if you h ave a lot of these things in your force.

Order of the Green Lady:
Still known as Water Elementals , they come straight from the theme list. Striding rather than pathfinding, the regiment gets a points deduction, and that’s all that’s different.

More to come…

[arcticfox]

2E Unit: Order of the Brotherhood on foot
Characterized by: heavy armor
Example Models in my army: Foot Knights from Warlord Games

Yep, Order of the Brotherhood, but walking.

Order of the Brothermark:
Paladin Foot Guard are the obvious choice here. Identical statline with the addition of that Basilean Iron Resolve for the same points, plus interesting upgrade options.

Order of the Green Lady:
These are your Order of the Brotherhood on Foot. Almost identical to their 2E selves, they are a bit cheaper since Valiant isn’t a thing anymore. Not much to say here, really. They do get an indirect upgrade because Headstrong is a beautiful thing.

[NeroVipus]

Did you notice the Troop(10) Regiment(20) on 3rd?

Surely a misprint.

[arcticfox]

On Order of Redemption? Yeah I agree it must be. Otherwise it would be utterly inconsistent with the core rules for unit size and with other, similar units.

[Loadmaster666]

Great write up for the brotherhood. Thanks for you time and effort.

[Loadmaster666]

Looking forward to smashing face with knights. Mixed in with Green lady stuff I am sure they will be a force to be reckoned with.

[Sceleris]

Cheers for this - good comparison post.

[Bloodaxe]

Very nice write-up! Thank you.
I miss the old Brotherhood, but Im on to Kingdoms of Men now.