Lots of information on Champions and other games in this one.
Certainly a lot of valuable insights and info dropped thereā¦ Considering you guys are a āno nameā little podcast, or whatever they are saying on Fanatics 
This podcast was practically investigative journalismā¦ Pumping Ronnie for information. Keep up the good work.
A big takeaway from this podcast, for me, was that the HALO train has really gained momentum since it left the station.
What will the implications for Mantic, and its players be, arising from HALOās success?
Personally, I saw HALO as kind of Deadzone-lite, and I always said to myself that if I was going to get into a Mantic skirmish game, it would be Deadzone. That calculation could change if the success of HALO means that in the next few years it is getting more support, better models, more investment and more community support.
Some of the earlier limitations of HALO (less complexity than Deadzone) could also potentially be smoothed out, as new waves add more complexity in the shape of new factions, additional rules etc.
Sometimes people say that the success of IP products like HALO will mean money is available to plough back into Manticās own IP (Deadzone, KOW), a sort of ārising tide lifts all boatsā argument. While thereās some merit to this idea, I donāt know that it logically follows in every case. If HALO is making big money, logically if I wanted to keep making money Iād make sure that I am putting more resources into HALO to try and get that game even bigger, and keep that growing fanbase satisfied.
I would legit wonder about the wisdom of dropping a Deadzone new edition any time soon, considering that HALOās popularity is growing so fastā¦ Why confuse matters, just keep giving the people what they want.
Yeah, that was a fun take on FB yesterday. Thanks for the kind words. Ronnie is always a great guest and is just dying to leak the next bit of information if only we ask the right question.
In terms of champions we have a LOT to share today on our live stream on YouTube at 3pm CST. Turns out that there is a lot out there if you just do a little digging. Also, weāll have lots of rules discussions.
Halo is definitely on a meteoric rise and we will have loads of Halo vs Deadzone comparison upcoming in our Adepticon content. We have a 2 hour discussion with a few of the Mantic SciFi content creators on that very subject coming up soon.
From what Iāve seen over the years (which is admittedly anecdotal) wargames based on existing IP are not reliable.
The interest that comes with the IP makes those games initially popular, but then fades.
People are not interested in it for the wargame, so interest in the wargame is dependant on the rest of the IP. Which fades as other entertainment comes along and is always at risk of a release (new game/movie/season) not being received well.
How many Star Wars games have come and gone?
As far as I can tell, what wargame IPs that stand the test of time have in common is being based on their own IP, thatās āhomegrownā over decades (Iāll leave it there for brevity).
Like the Warhammers and Infinity.
Which KoW is well on the way to IMO.
My hope with Halo is that Mantic make the most of riding the wave, but also use it to raise awareness of Deadzone and Mantic in general.
Hopefully there will be a significant proportion of Halo players looking for more when the licence expires.
Thanks for the fun episode!
Ronnie has a way of talking about stuff that gets you interested.
I havenāt paid much attention to Champions (I already play KoW so not the target market and barely have time for KoW proper as it is) but Ronnie talking about made me at least check it out and Iāll probably buy a box for one of the heroes at least.
My main gripe with Champions is that the heroes are new characters (except for one).
Why not existing characters, especially from the books?
I would have love to see Kateryn or Yorna on the table.
As a wishlist item; if they release a Champions box with Herneas (or Rhyss) and plastic dwarf rangers Iāll buy it immediately.
On KoW 4th, Iām glad that theyāre taking their time.
Iām far less gung-ho about adding spice and morenervous about how much it sounds like theyāre changing things, but hearing Ronnie and Kyle talk/ramble about it was very reassuring.
Not the thread for it, but ā¦
I wouldnāt look a gift horse in the mouth at this stage. HALO is on a great trajectory and considering signs of community growth and support that is totally independent of existing Mantic players, I think itās probably going to do well for the next several years at least.
Iām listening to a podcast about HALO right now thatās by a couple of dudes coming from a MCP and Shatterpoint background, and it was initially kind of jarring to realise that it wasnāt a HALO fanbase that was coming from that Mantic āghettoā that we inhabit here, and on Fanatics.
HALO offers immediate revenue opportunities, and probably several years of further growth just with the current game, andā¦ Who knows? HALO mass battle format down the line? Doing what Firefight has, to date, not been able to do, in terms of a successful larger-scale SF shooting battle game.
Taking the example of Star Wars, yes the games change, but ā¦ Thereās always a Star Wars game on the go, and more on the horizon, and HALO is an IP that does appear to have significant legs at this point.
I do struggle to see why they should split efforts between HALO and Deadzone, at least for the foreseeable. The games are just so similar. The holy grail might be to have your own IP take off, like GW managed, butā¦ Letās be real, not every company can be GW (pretty high standard to pick as an exemplar of most profitable best practice).
Lots of great ideas presented there. I think the good news is that Mantic is an old hand at shepherding IPs. They have a decent track record of being able to ride the IP to the point where itās time to jump off. Itās a long list in addition to Halo that includes Mars Attacks, Hellboy, Walking Dead, Umbrella Academy, Worms and with the upcoming with Assassins Creed. So expect the same thing with Halo - they are striking while itās hot. One interesting thing is that while Deadzone and Halo are mechanically similar, I much prefer Halo to Deadzone. Weāll have a whole episode in the future on that subject with a few of the content creators from the Warpath space.
As far as champions itās certainly targeted at new ranks and flanks curios gamers. Since these players arenāt coming with any knowledge of the fluff and since Champions is mechanically different than KOW I think Mantic made the decision that all the characters would be knew. This letās them start fresh and helps to separate the two games. I donāt expect any crossover between KOW and Champions until we get to 4th edition. Which I hope they take as long as they need to get it right.
Whilst firstly stating that Iām just a random person with an opinion and no expert, Iād have thought that having your own IP that you keep slowly expanding, whilst using the boom (and often bust) of external IP is probably the way forward. Mantic have a pretty solid player base for their IP. Not huge by any stretch of the imagination but large enough to offer security. If they can ride the wave of good licencing deals to get boosts that they then put at least part of back into their IP to gradually grow it then thatās probably lower risk than hoping a licence doesnt die after putting all the proverbial eggs in one basket
Nice chunk of Adepticon 
Thanks for the episode!
I enjoy the fireside chats, they go straight to the top of my podcast playlist.
A good point on how invested Warhammer players seem to be in their faction choice. Itās almost like supporting a sports team.
I thoroughly gave up on GW games years ago, but to some small degree Iām still on team Tzeench. Just as plannedā¦
I think the key is that wargames have at least a small degree of role-playing. At minimum, weāre pretending to be military commanders.
This is even more true for Fantasy and Sci-Fi, where we want some immersion into a world.
GW leans into this by giving factions identifiable values or characteristics that players can identify with (or pretend to identify with) and actionable ways to engage.
Orc players are encouraged to play aggressively and shout WAAAAAAGH! For example. Thereās even a accent for if you want to be extra orky/have more fun with it.
Dwarf players can be grumpy and declare that something is going in the Book of Grudges.
Itās immersive fun that brings the Warhammer universe to mind, even when youāre not playing.
I never played dwarfs in Warhammer, but when I take my 100% Mantic dwarf army to a KoW event I search the local group chat for the last person to say something vaugely negative about Imperial Dwarfs and challenge them in the first round.
Itās fun, but Pannithor doesnāt have a Book of Grudges. 
Iām not sure how Mantic would tap into this. Itās not something that can be added with a shoe horn or heavy hand.
Fewer factions might help? Keeping it in mind as the lore develops might get them there eventually.
I think youāre right that itās like supporting a sports team in GW games.
I made that fateful decision to paint my 2nd edition Warhammer 40K starter set marines as Blood Angels, and even after all these yearsā¦ When I was thinking of getting back into 40K, it felt wrong not to be defaulting towards them. Totally irrational, but it was still there.
I, personally, was always interested in the Space Wolves as well, and I donāt know if anyone has seen the new models for them which have just been previewed in the past few days, and they seem to have been exceptionally well-received. Really nice looking models.
Getting back to the question of āwhyā there is no much faction-specific loyalty in GWā¦ I do wonder if the higher cost plays a role. Whether people are buying the models to game, or just for collecting purposesā¦ Well, you wouldnāt really like to buy Blood Angels and Space Wolves, for example, in that youād never field a mixed force, and even collectors probably want that uniformity on the shelf.