Enthrall rework ideas

Army lists and Tactics
1

Good day all!

Note: not sure if this is in the right category? Where should we discuss rule ideas?

I recently read through the NA changes, and I really like what they did with the synergies between units (obviously themed around Frozen). This got me thinking about my faction, TR. I don’t think they need a major rework, but could do with some tweaks. But if they are to look at our beloved fishies, what big change would they make to affect the army’s identity? Similar to what they did to NA.

We have “army special rule” of Ensnare. Now let’s be frank, ensnare is great and I don’t think it needs any changes.

But what other rule do we see that is in abundance and rather scarce in other armies?

Enthrall off course!

Enthrall is kind of weak at the moment in my opinion. It is very good, in VERY limited scenarios. Also it is one of those spells that can cause you more harm than good by casting it.

Let’s consider a scenario:

2 units of knights (speed 8) face off against our Kraken (speed 7 + wild charge D3) on the flank.
The knights want to combo charge the Kraken, but don’t want to get charged by the kraken, so they stand just outside of 17" and dare the Kraken to come forward.
The Kraken doesn’t want to be combo charged, so he just shuffles up 1", the knights shuffle back 1" etc.
We have a stalemate.

It feels like Enthrall should be the perfect spell to break said stalemate!

The issue is, let’s say we cast Entrhall on the one unit of knights, and we drag them 4" forward, and our Kraken moves up 1". Great, now the knights can’t move back far enough, and will need to commit somewhere (or pray to the dice gods for a bad wild charge roll on the Kraken).

The problem with this is, the Knights still threat 16", and they are now 4" closer, and the rest of the list probably wants to move up. This means the knights probably have multiple charge options - might even have a flank somewhere! I mean, they can even probably charge the caster who casted Enthrall and by doing so avoid the Kraken all together. Naturally you can try and plan for this, but it is damn tricky.

So how can we change Enthrall to make it more palatable/interesting?

Idea 1:
If unit is enthralled they become hindered or disordered. I think this is way too OP. Though you could maybe have if the unit has been moved more than X inches only then do they become hindered or disordered?

Idea 2:
If a unit is enthralled, their speed stat gets reduced by the amount they where moved by. Their speed stat can’t be reduced to less than 5.
This is probably OP and needs some refinement, but I think this is a VERY interesting idea. If we consider the previous scenario, then we pull those knights 4" their speed drops to 5, which means they can’t get away from the Kraken, and they can’t charge the Enthrall caster.
It is probably too strong, and should only reduce the speed of the unit for every 2 inches the unit gets dragged - which means they can still reach all the same targets as before Enthrall was cast, but it can cause some headaches for the player whose’ unit has been dragged.

What do you guys think? Too OP? Too complex?

2 Likes
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Of the two ideas, I like idea 2 best. It is reasonable that they would have less movement “left” after moving in opponent’s phase. Probably better to have a set penalty, maybe -2 sp for less complexity.

I want to throw out a really crazy idea that I think might make enthrall work as I envision it should. IE take advantage of an enemy pulled out of the battleline.
So I propose the following addition to the spell;
“Instead of beeing cast in the shooting phase, this spell may instead be cast at the beginning of a player turn, before the movement phase. The caster may not shoot/cast additional spells in the shooting phase, unless a special rule allows for casting of multiple spells during a turn.”

This way you can take advantage with not only shooting units and surge set-ups, but regular combat units as well. Which I think is more thematic than the current way.

1 Like
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More thematic, but sounds like a negative experience for the player on the recieving end.
In a game where your opponent is already frustrated by ensnare on everthing.

Also increases the potential threat distance of the entire trident realm army. Which sounds… hard to deal with.

Sorry for being negative.

Ensnare disordering the target sounds right, but would be very powerful. Maybe on a [1] hero?
Trident of the Drowned Sea and Siren’s Call are already in the list though.

1 Like
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@DarkBlack

It may certainly be too powerful. The effective range of enthrall used this way will be less than usual (as you cast before you move).

Your argument can also be used for flyers, surge, shooting lits, etc. Anything that already exists in the game that can give a bad game to the one that has little counter/experience against such strategies.

That said, flyers was nerfed, and shooting is still a hot topic. So indeed it might be too powerful, but that could be playtested. I think also it will require skill to set up the traps, and a skilled player may avoid the traps at most times.

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Thanks for the feedback!

I think the issue with that is, it leaves very little room for counter play. Pulling an enemy and then being able to charge them opens it up to too much abuse. Not only are you extending other unit’s threat ranges, but you are opening flanks.

I think this version is kinda okay IF you only have 1 or maybe 2 enthralls in the list, and they can’t be very high enthralls, then it could perhaps work. But as the rules are currently the TR can have a LOT of enthrall, so this would be super abusive to play and not leave your opponent a lot of counter play options. Unless you nerf the trident’s Sp stat across the board… but that would suck and make them wholly dependent on Enthrall.

Maybe this can work as a [1] upgrade for the Siren? Because gosh she needs a glow up. And honestly she should have the best enthrall in the game.

I still hope they change the Dambuster’s enthrall to allow them to pull enemy individuals into combat with themselves…

1 Like
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Yes, that’s it.
It does let you pull units into shooting range and into traps already.
Also a potential pain for shooting units. Pull them into charge range and/or their front out of terrain.

That sounds better.

It’s already got a sort of mindfog rolled in.
Do you have any more interesting ideas?

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Yeh I agree that the version of enthrall I evision should be limited at the least :wink: and mabye too powerful even so.

Dambuster idea might run in the same error though, as you can chain enthrall from other sources and then do the last enthrall with some dambusters that are now in the flank. The same rule you propose exist for a nightstalker individual. But it is restricted, and on a unit that doesn"t benefit from flanking. I still like this idea, but maybe with some nerf on the attacks? Half attacks, -1 to hit, definitively no TC bonus.

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Yeah sorry I was thinking of the Dambuster sentinel not the unit.

He only has Enthrall 4", so 90% of the time you would much rather just charge, and it would be an EXTREME edge case (and massive investment) where you pull a unit with other units just to pull the last 4" with the sentinel.
With such a low enthrall value it would be kinda tricky to get good use out of it. He is spd 7 with fly… so gives you a 11" non-linear threat, and that would be very unreliable.

So for the dambuster sentinel I think this would work fine, but I agree it would be perhaps too strong on the Dambuster unit.

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I still feel her Enthrall is very mediocre. I mean, this is a SIREN, this should be the thing that she is best at. Oddly I think a Banshee does it better (or on the same level) which feels very strange to me.

I still think her Enthrall should perhaps reduce her target’s speed. It makes narrative sense, since they get all lovey-dovey and a bit dopey perhaps. Though more importantly I think it makes her as a piece much more unique and gives some interesting play options with her.

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Ok, yeah, on sentinel only it would also limit the units with the skill, which would help avoid abuse. Still think you need to lose the TC though , as it would make no sense getting it from such a “charge” :wink:

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Hehe, I guess, or you make it keep TC but only work agains non-mighty individuals - I figure you then keep the TC since you are now inside the frog belly :stuck_out_tongue:

12

Haha, that would be fun, but the complexity is getting a bit hairy :wink: