Forces of the Abyss - Tactica Demonica

Kings of War Army lists and Tactics
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Forces of the Abyss – Tactica Demonica

Prologue

This unholy beast of an article came about from two simple facts – I’m building a Forces of the Abyss army this year, and I unfortunately have very few opportunities to actually play Kings of War.

The second point has made it a challenge to build an Abyssal list to aim for, so I thought I’d do the next best thing – go through the army rules with a fine-tooth comb and write more than 2500 words about it. :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t profess to be an expert on Abyssals or even Kings of War, so don’t expect a treatise on the level of Sun Tsu’s Art of War! And please, please tell me where you disagree or think I’m wrong – it’s currently the only way I’ll learn!

Anyway, onto the meat and potatoes…

Command Orders

Burn the Sinners

There’s no unit restriction for this, so you could put it on anything from Imps to the Well of Souls. Even the odd isolated Fireball is handy for softening up units before melee, but the fact that it adds Shattering combines especially well with an existing base of Flame Bearers. So long as you’ve got a non-Flame Bearer unit to give it to.

Unholy Shield

A bit of a dud, unfortunately. Improving resilience to shooting for Upper Circle units is already a niche order, but with 5+ to succeed you can’t even rely on it to work when you want it to. Useful if you’re facing a lot of shooting, especially for protecting the more obvious targets, like Tortured Souls or a Chroneas. But it’s not something to build an army around.

Core and Auxiliary

Lower Abyssals

Goblins with Regenerate. Regiments are your cheapest unlock, but Hordes have value as a big block of chaff to protect your heavy hitters until they engage. Either way, don’t expect them to do much damage. Even giving them two-handed weapons grants a minimal improvement in killing power. Regenerating after a Withdraw to keep them useful seems especially good.

A Horde will also be VERY hard to put down without a decent combat unit, so they might be handy for guarding isolated objectives. As a front line unit to absorb initial charges, it might be worth adding a Crystal Pendant of Retribution. The resulting damage on whatever unit/s wipe them out will soften them up for your hard hitters!

Troops could potentially function as an alternative to Imps for expendable chaff… if you don’t need the Ht 1 of the Imps and are willing to pay 10pts for the questionable increase in survival. In other words, just take the Imps

Succubi

Succubi are in the interesting position of being able to function as both a hammer and an anvil, depending on how you equip and use them.

As a hammer unit, they have the Me 3+ and a high attack volume. But without any Crushing Strength they REALLY need some support in the form of a magic item (Hammer of Measured Force?) or Bane Chant. Do that, and they’ll put out some pretty good damage for their cost.

The Succubi can be very effective as an anvil-type unit for absorbing charges, thanks to its high Nerve (for a regiment) combined with Stealthy and Ensnare. Just try to keep them in cover. Hitting on -1 from Ensnare isn’t enough to reliably stop a horde of elite infantry from wiping the Succubi, but making them hit at -2 from a hindered charge is.

Flame Bearers

Shoot 5+ and Piercing (1) make this a seriously capable shooting unit. A pack of 2-3 units should do a great job of softening up enemy units, both to break up your opponent’s battle line and allow your combat blocks to finish them off.

You’ll probably want Regiments, both for the unlock (Troops are Aux) and the improved resilience against opposing shooters. Don’t expect them to last in melee… but if they do happen to survive a charge, it’s usually worth trying a Withdraw. That way you can pull back, maybe save your Flamebearers and get another round of shooting on the offending attackers (remember Withdrawing doesn’t prevent shooting, just as long as you’re not withdrawing through a friendly unit).

Hellhounds

Your first and cheapest option for a fast flanker who can deal some respectable damage. Nimble allows them to both avoid cover and navigate around other units for the odd sneaky flank charge. They won’t win a head-on fight, but they’re there fast and maneuverable enough to threaten flanks and give your opponent a headache.

Troops are a bit questionable. As an Auxiliary unit they won’t unlock, and you lose half of their melee punch. They might still work as a flanking threat but otherwise, it might be better to take the more maneuverable Gargoyles.

Imps

The cheapest of cheap chaff. Keep them away from any shooting and they’ll do their job as a speed bump to slow down enemy units before your big guys come in. Height 1 means other infantry can see over them. This better allows for multi-charges and more importantly, lets your Flame Bearers shoot past them.

Gargoyles

Dies to a stiff breeze, but there’s no faster chaff unit. They’re just expensive enough that you won’t want to throw them away until absolutely necessary. The new shooting rules mean they’re much harder to wipe out at range, especially with their Regenerate. But even minimal shooting can cause a Waver. So keep them safe until they’re needed, avoid shooting unless you have to and don’t expect them to survive melee!

IMO their biggest negative is that an extra 30 points gives you a troop of Tortured Souls, which is slower and takes up a Specialist slot, but better in every other way. Something to think about.

Specialist

All three Specialist units in the Abyssal list occupy the same broad niche – fast and elite. So for this section I’ll be talking about them relative to each other.

Abyssal Horsemen

Fearless and Regeneration makes them almost impossible to stop via shooting. With Thunderous Charge (3) they’ll hit like a truck on the charge, but can’t keep dealing damage in protracted engagements. So you either make sure they kill what they hit (usually with supporting units), or you look at Withdrawing in subsequent rounds to finish them off later.

Combining the Withdrawal with a Burn the Sinners command has a lot of potential here, especially if you can use it to waver the unit you just pulled back from.

Berserkers

Not as tough, fast or damaging as the similarly costed Abyssal Horseman, and without Fearless they’re much more vulnerable to shooting. But with Crushing Strength instead of Thunderous Charge they’ll stay effective in subsequent rounds of combat. As non-flying large infantry they’re not completely neutered by Phalanx or a hindered charge either.

Under ideal circumstances I’d say the Horsemen are outright better… but Berserkers will prove more effective if you don’t get those ideal conditions.

Berserkers are a pretty good choice for investing in magic items and adding Elite or Vicious is always welcome. But in particular the Brews of either Strength or Sharpness, while costly, will both give them a significant boost in killing power.

Resist the temptation to compare Berserkers to the equally costed Molochs. On the face of it Molochs are flat-out better, but their roles are very different. While Molochs are a unit you put on the main battle line with other infantry, Berserkers are designed as fast flankers. They’re functionally more similar to the Horsemen or Tortured Souls, albeit much better at grinding out opposing units in a protracted combat.

Tortured Souls

Tortured Souls are overall less resilient and less damaging than the Horsemen and Berserkers. But Fly gives them the edge in maneuverability and Fearless means no risk of Wavering from ranged attacks. And importantly, their lower cost is a benefit in itself.

While the Horsemen and Berserkers can engage enemy units head on, Tortured Souls just don’t have the killing power to reliably fill the role of a hammer. They’re instead much better suited to either threatening flanks, picking on weak units or supporting a much more dangerous unit in combat.

Troops are also cheap enough to use as chaff – a role in which they’re very well suited, thanks to Fearless.

Support

Molochs

The premium face beaters for Abyssals. Excellent damage output for their cost and with Regenerate they’ve got the potential to shrug off shooting and grind through enemy units over multiple combats. They’re only De 4+, so they’re vulnerable to getting taken off the table by a multi-charge. Best to use them as a second line unit to clean up whatever runs into your chaff.

Nagarri

With Rallying and Sp 7, these seem like a unit built to support your fast Specialists. Good damage output for their cost and being a chariot removes any weakness to the Phalanx and Rampage rules. Hindered charges will blunt their damage output a little, but not nearly as much as Abyssal Horsemen. That’s fortunate, given how huge their footprint is. With De 4 and no Regeneration they’re not very resilient. Combined with that large base size, you can expect them to be an easy target for your opponent.

Chroneas

The best “Giant” type monster in the list. Strider, Cloak of Death and the ability to heal other units make him great for supporting your main blocks of Infantry in combat, though he can’t heal the one unit you’d care about most – Molochs. The small 50mm base is another nice bonus, making potential flank charges that much easier.

Fiend

The cheaper cousin of the Chroneas. For 30 pts less you get a Titan who can’t heal, is less damaging and slightly less resilient. However the Fireball (5) and Rallying for your Upper Circle units gives him a role in supporting your main battle line or (thanks to Sp7) your faster Tortured Souls and Abyssal Horsemen.

I think the Fiend is a perfectly fine unit to support any part of your army that consists of Lower Circle units. But if you can find 30 pts and he’s only keeping up with Sp 5-6 infantry, the Chroneas is the better option.

The Well of Souls

This is a unit I just know I’m going to squander at the first opportunity. Flying monsters like this can be so powerful, but deriving enough value out of them to justify their high cost is tricky.

Being able to transfer wounds off other units is a hugely powerful effect though, especially since the Well is so much harder to remove from range thanks to the 4th ed shooting rules and its Fearless rule.

Ideally then, you want to use the Well in close support with your other units – transferring wounds off to keep units in the fight and using its mobility to pull off flank charges. If you can keep the Well of Souls focused on doing that, then it should be well worth its cost.

Champion

Despoiler

The melee Champion. He’ll do some decent damage in combat and can threaten the flanks of an unwary opponent. Regenerate can help him shrug off shooting and keep fighting, but with De 4+ he’s still going to fall to a decent counter-attack. Basically, anything that can take out a basic Shield Wall regiment will do exactly the same to a Despoiler.

In short, you need to be careful about when you choose to engage with a Despoiler. Avoid charging him out alone and wait for combats you expect to win, or when your opponent is more likely to focus on a much bigger threat (like Molochs).

Warlock

With Inspiring and access to Spells AND Commands, Spellcasters tend to be some of the best Champions available in each army thanks to the excellent utility they offer. Unfortunately, the Warlock really tests that convention.

Abyssal Warlocks are most expensive spellcasters in the game, only being exceeded by Warlord-level Casters, unique characters and powerful specialists like the Banshee. The Ogre Warlock is only slightly cheaper at -10 pts, but everyone else is about 50 pts cheaper for a bog standard Inspiring Individual with access to spells.

So what do you get for those extra 50 points? A moderately useful Firebolt, Regeneration and a Large Infantry body who can flank charge and see over other infantry. There’s no doubt all of these benefits are useful, but only barely. In particular, the Firebolt is wasted if you want to cast another spell, and he’s really NOT deadly enough in melee to be worth risking on a flank charge. Put simply, we have an overcosted spellcaster with some niche extra benefits.

So after all that, is the Warlock worth considering? Unfortunately, yes. You at least get some improved resilience for his cost, and the spells he can access are just too good to ignore. Scorched Earth, Barkskin, Bane Chant, Drain Life and Blood Boil, among others, are all worth investing in.

I think the cheapest way to effectively run him is to just take one combat-friendly spell (e. Bane Chant, Drain Life or Barkskin), and then stick with his Firebolts for range. Adding another powerful ranged option like Scorched Earth is worth considering, but keep in mind that your Warlock can easily hit 180 points if you do.

Harbinger

A cheap source of Very Inspiring and Commands, but little else. A spell-granting artifact like Shroud of the Saint gives them some extra utility if you can spare the points, but otherwise they’re mostly there as the cheapest way to spread out the Inspiring.

Efreet

Shooting from a single Efreet is roughly equivalent to a regiment of Flamer Bearers. The Firepower they add is great for supporting those Flame Bearers, and their mobility can help them stay safe throughout the game, all the while throwing out those Fireballs each turn.

No Inspiring is a big problem though, since you really want at least three Inspiring sources in any game of at least 2000pts. So that Efreet will either need an Inspiring Talisman, or be taken as your 4th Champion.

The Bloody Cardinal

Functionally almost identical to the Despoiler. Dread is much better than the Despoilers Brutal, but the Despoiler is slightly better in combat thanks to Vicious. The Despoiler is also faster, Regenerate beats out Lifeleech vs shooting and he has the opportunity to take a magic item. Besides that, the cheaper cost makes the Bloody Cardinal a marginally better choice.

Warlord

Seductress

The Seductress is your cheapest option for a Flying Hero to Inspire and fight with your fast units, as well as put some US 2 anywhere on the board for scenario play. Adding Wind Blast or Enthrall could be fun, but in general I wouldn’t bother. If you’re taking a Seductress over the other Flying Warlords below, it’s because she’s the cheapest.

That said, there’s a few 5 pt magic items that would do well on a Seductress. Chief among these are the Dark Lord’s Onyx Ring to very cheaply boost her resilience, and the Ej Periscope to see over enemy units and threaten enemy heroes.

Abyssal Warlord

The cheapest Warlord available, and also the only one who can’t fly! If the Abyssals had enough good Commands to make use of every turn, then the Warlord would be worth considering. But as it stands, you’re better off either downgrading to a Despoiler or Cardinal, or upgrading to a Flying Warlord.

Archfiend

The “Dragon” Hero – fast, expensive, tough and very dangerous if you can hit a flank. Iron Resolve and Regenerate 5+ in particular is just ridiculous on a unit like this. Still, the Archfiend can be hard to get enough value from to justify their cost. If they can’t roll a flank, or are delayed for multiple turns in a standoff with enemy units, then your huge points sink is going to be wasted. Other, better players than me can probably make good use of them, so maybe talk to one of those!

Lord of Lies

Almost identical to the Archfiend, except with Slayer (3) and his Seeds of Distrust rule to turn off enemy Commands. That’s arguably worth the extra 30 pts so if you’re going to splurge on a “Dragon”, it’s easy to justify upgrading to a Lord of Lies.

Ba’su’su the Vile

Fast, capable in combat and with good resilience thanks to the combination of Regenerate, a high Defense and decent Nerve. He won’t do much on his own, but pair him up with some other fast units and you can cause all sorts of trouble. Short of splurging on an Archfiend or Lord of Lies, this is one of the “premium” Flying Warlords available.

Mau’ti-Bu-Su

The other “premium” flying Warlord. Honestly there’s not much separating Mau’ti-bu-su and Ba’su’su. Mauti’s Brutal D3 accounts for her reduced damage output and her lack of Regeneration is balanced out by Ensnare and Stealthy. They’re almost the same cost, so which one you prefer is really a matter of personal choice.

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Overall Tactics

Command Orders are Good but not Great.

Of the two Command Orders available to the Abyssals, one (Unholy Shield) is too niche and unreliable to count on, and the other (Burn the Sinners) is mostly fine, albeit not applicable every turn of the game.

I think Burn the Sinners is good enough to at least consider during your list building. Chaff and anvil units like Imps and Succubi are great for throwing fireballs in the early game. And later on it might pay to have some cheap flyers like Gargoyles to throw it on, while the rest of your army sits in combat. Also don’t forget that units who Withdraw can still shoot, just so long as they’re not also disordered (like if they withdrew through a friendly unit).

I’m not sure it’s worth taking a Warlord just to get the most out of your commands – they’re just not quite worth the investment yet. At best the Torque of Command (for added range) might be handy, especially if you anticipate throwing the order on a fast unit who’s not yet engaged, like Hellhounds, Gargoyles or Tortured Souls.

Retaliate is Psychological

On the face of it, Retaliate is not a great rule. It’s the kind of thing that only comes up occasionally, and only if your unit survived getting multi-charged in the first place. In fact if anything it might be considered a negative, since units with Retaliate can’t Withdraw.

That said, I think the strength of Retaliate comes more from how it makes your opponent rethink their own decisions. Double charging a unit is less appealing when they know Retaliate will kick in on the return attacks. So they’re faced with a difficult decision – either go in piecemeal to avoid the extra damage, or risk the double charge and hope it’s enough to break your unit. If they’re charging in two high damage hammer-type units then it’s an easy decision. But it’s much less so when the extra unit/s in question are smaller and less damaging, like a Troop unit or Hero.

In other words, make sure you remind your opponents, early and often, about which units have Retaliate. Instill that doubt and hopefully, let them make some bad decisions as a result!

Defense in Depth – abusing Withdraw

With their easy access to Regeneration, Forces of the Abyss are incredibly well suited to abusing Withdraw as part of your battleplan. A unit like Lower Abyssals could take a charge, and then withdraw in the next turn to open up charges for your heavier units. Then by the time they’re ready to charge again, they’ve recovered about half their damage from two turns of Regeneration. As I’ve already mentioned, the same can be done with a hard hitting unit that doesn’t like grinding, like Abyssal Horsemen or Tortured Souls.

There are two ways to make the most use of this – layering your battleline, and having chaff on hand to hold down units you just withdrew from. A typical example of the former would be a horde or two of Abyssals in front of your Molochs and Chroneas. Using a horde is important, not just for the high nerve but also because a withdrawing horde will leave enough space for your second line to charge what they want.

Chaff is important too. They might be unlikely to survive a charge, but what they can do is hold up a unit you just withdrew from, preventing a second charge and giving your unit a chance to charge back in next turn. Gargoyles or Tortured Soul troops would pair well with Abyssal Horsemen for this purpose, but even a unit of Imps would be useful for holding up a unit that your second line of hammers might not yet be ready to engage.

One thing to keep in mind – units with Retaliate can’t Withdraw. This is probably most relevant for Berserkers, but make sure you remember which units in your army have that rule, and plan accordingly.

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Nice start…. i’ll be following avidly

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…and this is why I love forums. Thanks for this long-form stuff @Rathnard! And love the idea of using Burn the Sinners with withdrawing Horsemen. :heart_eyes:

I haven’t got to to play around with my own Abyssals much yet, but got to play against them a bit recently at some tournaments. Same opponent, different settings:

Battle 015 was a doubles game.

Battle 021 was a 2300 GT.

He went all in on Berserkers when they were revealed (he is a power gamer), and was still on that train going into 4E. With Items, they are spendy, but can get some good engagements, and between high Nerve and Regen, can be hard to remove. Uniquely, he said “bah” to the Command Orders, and kept doubling down on units, taking just the Bloody Cardinal for one source of Inspiring.

My take on a few things from your list, from my games and from the opposing side of the table:

Gargoyles are very strong. So many other things lost out on speed with the edition change, but Gargoyles kept Speed 10 and Fly, making them amazing chaff, with a lot of utility, especially with sticky combats now. They are fantastic pieces, and I wouldn’t compare the Gargoyles to Tortured Souls.

I haven’t run the Abyssals much yet as the Core befuddles me, but I have a good respect for Succubi now. While there are just Def3, Ensnare and Stealthy can do some real mitigation work. In head-to-head combat, you need to dedicate a lot to shift them, and they got a bit of a stealth buff to Nerve, reaching 17. They aren’t often going to break through stuff as a hammer; they can’t grind and regenerate, but they can take a heck of a punch, and be fantastic instigators. With withdraw moves now, I think these could be really strong with a list that layers up for deployment, for example.

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Haven’t played FoA since they got the army update in v3, but do think the v4 list has plenty of good options and build potential.

Gargoyles are way harder to take out now than they were previously, since they can’t just be shot off the board after taking a couple of points if damage.

The change to shooting has also helped the Well, since its safer to add damage to it before it gets stuck in to combat.

Berserkers with sharpness look like a real beast of a unit, esp as they will probably get tag teamed by the enemy so can actually take advantage of Retaliate (which a number of other units who get it probably can’t - as will either only get single charged, or will be dead if they are!).

The fiend being able to rally both the mainline infantry and the chroneas is nice, and a grind/heal centre with fast elements is a nice mix.

Have an old ambush set (lowers & succubi) plus lots of the terrain bits I used for them, and do want at least a box each of snakes, berserkers and the cardinal so they will get a refresh and some use - once many other projects are done!

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Berserkers are just weaker Molochs and less good . They nearly cost the same but aren’t just that good.

Their big plus last edition was their speed of 9, which allowed them to charge many units like cavalry and disorder them or they were able for a surprise attack or just reach an objective just before the end of the game.

Wth speed 7 now they aren’t able to do things like that. Cavalry is faster and it’s not overwhelming in general . Retaliate never did something in my games and Berserkers should not be fighting opponents where they need additional CS - apart from cavalry which looses TC in close combat.

Molochs are just one speed point less, but they fight way better. Only problem for Molochs - they are in the crowded Support section, where the real good units are.

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Sp9 berserkers were … dumb as an idea imo and glad they got pulled back!

Even if it just does come down to the slot they are in (esp as FoA doesn’t have a switch champion), they aren’t a bad unit and benefit from the chroneas, unlike molochs.

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Hey all, thanks for the feeedback - it’s nice to get some detailed discussion going. :slight_smile:

You’re not wrong - the mobility is great, and their lack of punch is a moot issue if you only need them to engage a unit for a turn. But I guess my biggest concern with Gargoyles is how easy they are to Waver, Sure, they’re less likely to be shot off the board, but they’re still easy to knock out of action for what could be a critical turn.

By comparison, Tortured Souls have fearless. So you can always count on them to be where you need them to be. The fact that they can actually deal some damage in combat and genuinely threaten flanks means you’ve got some really good utiliity in a single unit. Well worth the +30 points IMO.

I hadn’t noticed the Ne 17 on Succubi - that’s at Dwarf Ironguard levels now, which is pretty good! I think my initial assessment on the Succubi is unchanged though. Ensnare on it’s own is good, but I don’t think it’s enough on it’s own vs a dedicated hammer-type unit.

For instance lets say they get charged by a Shieldbreaker Horde (or something equivalent) - that’s 25 attacks at Me3 and at least CS (1). On average vs Ensnare that’s about 10.4 damage, more with elite and probably too high to comfortably expect the Succubi to hold. But if you add cover (so total -2 to hit) that damage drops down 6.9 - a much safer number for the Succubi.

This is why I don’t think I’d take more than 1-2 units in an army - I really want them to be utilising cover to get the most out of them.

That’s a really good point, especially considering the Well has Fearless!

I have to admit the Well looks pretty strong. I’m just not convinced I won’t squander it at the first opportunity. I’m used to playing Dwarfs, and i know from experience that I’m very bad at playing with single fast units (Lords on Large Beasts, for the Dwarfs). So the Well of Souls seems like a golden opportunity for me to throw 275 points down the toilet. :sweat_smile:

To a large extent I agree. If you’re after hammer unit to sit on the main battleline, Molochs are flat out superior.

But you can’t compare Berserkers to Molochs, because Berserkers aren’t a unit you put on the main battleline. They’re meant to be fast flankers who will out-grind the enemy flankers (something the Tortured Souls and Horsemen are less effective at). Losing the Speed 9 admittedly hurts them in that role, but the nerf was necessary. And I don’t think ruins their usefulness. Winning a fight on the flank is about much more than whether you can out-charge your opponent.

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I’ve just added some general tactics to the post. As usual, feel free to add your thoughts or tell me how wrong I am. :wink:

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Nice write up @Rathnard :fire:

I’ve been playing my Abyssals this edition as well, after being disappointed with the faction in prior editions. I can’t say I’m setting the world on fire with them currently, since I’m doing a more go-wide approach and not the Bag of Hammers style that has seen a little more success, but it’s been interesting and got me painting new stuff.

Anyway, some thoughts from my experience:

  • Orders: Fireball on demand is cool and fun, tho it’s been far less useful in the second half of games when everything is grinding. The Shield is on the whole shruggable, but pushing the Chroneas up to De 6+ is neat and basically the only use I get from it. Tortured Souls to De 5+ is also cool, as they’re common targets without regen. Really hoping for a vicious command or regen booster when we get our expansion, something to help with the grind.

  • Lower Abyssal hordes have been hardier than expected. Trash stats but I have rarely lost one to an initial charge, which is good because my list archetype needs to flank its way to victory. I’m running a couple regiments with CS1 and while they’ve done stuff in the flank, they’re really there to either chaff or win the game by dragging tokens away.

  • Succubi really need an item. I ran them naked at 2150 and they stuck around but didn’t do anything else. Hammer seems mandatory.

  • Tortured Souls troops are even better this edition, fearless chaff is stupendous. Fewer attaks makes the regiment size even less appealing, but it was a trap last edition too.

  • Berserker regiments don’t seem great, even with top flight items. I ran a brewed up CS2 regiment and was mostly chaffed up forever or they failed to deliver on their 260 points. I’m curious about troops of them but even then I prefer Molochs for identical points.

  • Moloch regiments seem so auto-include that I won’t be using them :sweat: Giving a couple troops a try, cause those stats are also impressive and I’d prefer more units and less obvious targets. Quite the frontage tho!

  • Nagarri have me worried about wavering and no regen makes them really stand out, speaking of being targeted. Currently painting a regiment and am excited for everything else they bring to the table. Probably one of the keenest felt missing keywords in the faction tho, as Unholy Shield would really help them out.

  • Chroneas will probably never leave my list, but mine has really been driving me crazy. The number of times he’s somehow delivered 1 damage is shocking, including the time I flanked some Ironguard for a single boop. Dice weirdness aside, I’m a Cloak fan and that small base for flanking is tasty.

  • Mau’ti-Bu-Su broke my heart in most of the six games I played with her. Her brutal was always 3 when the enemy was devastated or 1 when it wasn’t, her extra pip of Nv was never relevant thanks to hot dice, and on the whole I wished I was playing with a Seductress instead. I had planned on switching her down to a Seductress with the regen ring (I would use the periscope to jump on heroes but I think I’ll wait until duelist changes to something more meaningful, +D3 attaks isn’t much of anything with CS1 behind it), but increasingly I’d rather have a warlock I think. I agree that Ba’su’su is a better flying brawler, if that’s the goal. My interest in these flying warlords is ultimately more scenario play - US2 wherever you want it seems good! - but I’m too aggressive and combats are too sticky.

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Hey, I’m back. :stuck_out_tongue:

I still haven’t played a game with Forces of the Abyss, but that hasn’t stopped me thinking about how best to play them.

Accordingly, I’ve updated the first post. The main changes are to Succubi, Berserkers, the Well of Souls and the Warlock. But there’s also some minor updates to lower Abyssals, Flamebearers, Gargoyles, Tortured Souls, Nagarri and the Seductress. I had all the changes coloured red and was hoping it’d copy over from my word doc, but sadly not! :confused:

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