GW vs Mantic pricing

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I posted this on Reddit too, but it’s a useful thing to note here too.

I can also share my crappy spreadsheet if people would be interested.

There was a thread about Champions and how Mantic/Kings of War used to be cheap but now they’re terrible and expensive, etc.

I had actually been looking at this for a while recently with a view to seeing if there’s any Old World players locally who would be interested in playing KoW possibly instead/as well.

Here’s my response:

Kings of War is still cheap.

Going on the mega army deals and these are Mantic’s own prices, you can certainly find deals elsewhere:

• ⁠Cheapest price per model: 0.92 GBP (Undead Mega Army)

• ⁠Average price per model: 1.68 GBP

• ⁠Most expensive price per model: 4.80 GBP (Ogres)

Meanwhile in AOS:

• ⁠Cheapest price per model (PPM) 2.57 GBP (Gloomspite Gitz)

• ⁠Average PPM: 5.67

• ⁠Most expensive: 33.33 GBP (Sons of Behemat SH) or if you think that’s an outlier, second most expensive is 8.75 GBP (Slyvaneth SH)

Old World:

• ⁠Cheapest: 1.51 GBP (Orcs and Goblins)

• ⁠Average: 1.74 GBP

• ⁠Expensive: 2.50 GBP (Warriors of Chaos)

Think it’s just Fantasy?

Firefight vs 40K

Firefight

• ⁠Cheapest - 1.23 GBP (Plague)

• ⁠Average - 2.06 GBP

• ⁠Expensive - 3.20 (Enforcer Pathfinders)

40K

• ⁠Cheapest - 2.56 GBP (Death Guard)

• ⁠Average - 4.93 GBP

• ⁠Expensive - 8.33 (Grey Knights)

Skirmish?

Deadzone:

• ⁠Cheapest price per model: 1.97 GBP (Nameless)

• ⁠Average: 2.23 GBP

• ⁠Expensive: 2.50 (Forge fathers or GCPS)

Kill Team:

• ⁠Cheapest: 3.15 GBP (Chaos Cultists)

• ⁠Average: 4.57 GBP

• ⁠Expensive: 9.63 GBP (Blades of Khaine)

You can of course usually get 15-20% off GW prices. You can often get better deals with Mantic. Plus Mantic will frequently sell you a 35 GBP box full of assorted minis as part of their crazy box. And they have sales on their own website sometimes.

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Not to mention that some gw models are well over £20 for a single space marine size model! Even mantic direct resin models of that size are usually £10 or less

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These comparisons are always a bit unfair.
Mantic offers a significantly better cost ratio, but GW’s Miniatures are simply superior. Although that is arguably down to personal preference.
But if I search a miniature for painting, I will always choose a GW over Mantic.
If I want a unit of 20 miniatures for an Army that’s quick to paint? Mantic is in the competition for sure.

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prices and quality is relative to a point

A high single model cost can be mitigated by not needing a lot of models to play
Low single model quality is mitigated by needing a lot of models per unit anyway (no one cares about the super detailed boots of a model that is in the middle of 40 model Horde)

In addition, transport ability, or stability during play, easy to assemble or option for variation are also a part of quality for gaming pieces that is often neglected simple because they are not needed to get internet bonus points when showing close ups on Instagram

Comparing the prices for Armies to play is something different than comparing prices for models to put on a shelf for display.
A unit of 5 super detailed models without options for 50€ that are a pain to build and need longtime to paint but look awesome on the shelf, won’t make a good army on the table were you need 50 of those.
On the other side, 50 less detailed models for 50€ that are easy to build and to paint, that look mediocre if put as singles on the shelf, may look awesome as an army

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20 gw night goblins (or whatever they are called!) for AoS are £28 - 20 mantic goblins are £27.50!

That said, for £10 more you just buy the ambush set and get 20 more goblins and 2 chariots!

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All good points and really the main point for me is that mantic make much better games and you dont need a £30 book for each army and you dont suddenly find your units obsolete!

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This is the key for me as well. I don’t really want to patron for GW for the reason I don’t play their games, and have little intention to. Mantic’s models aren’t really accessible to me either locally, unfortunately, since our local store don’t and cannot stock them, and GW is of course their main miniature outlet. Understandably.

That’s why it’s increasingly difficult to promote the game. For the store’s point of view, I absolutely understand it. Still, I would not promote another game to use the GW’s models in either, since it’s… overall a bit bizzare. Among friends it’s all fair game, but if you’d like to promote the game to new people, having a mismatch of better value models and a better game and a playing space and stockist that cannot accommodate that niche, we run into obstacles.

Mantic’s availability in some parts of the world is a hinderance. But I would simultaneously want to support both Mantic and our local store. Thankfully I can at least now pay for the Companion’s monthly subscription, which I’m more than happy to do.

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I don’t doubt that Citadel makes some very technically impressive miniatures especially for large centerpiece models.

However comparing the current army boxes for The Old World to the early Kings of War armies… Elves, Undead, Dwarfs, Orcs… those are where the Mantic models look better and the value really shows.

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Price was a consideration in my deciding to get into KOW rather than TOW.

I use a mixture of proxied models and Mantic models (mainly Mantic, it must be said… But some Wargames Atlantic and such in there as well).

My sense is that instead of having armies for 4 factions, which I’ve now got, had I gone TOW route, I believe I would probably have 2, and maybe be starting a 3rd. I can’t say that’s based on exhaustive number crunching however.

I think the point made about GW sculpt quality might be valid, if you were as much of a painter/collector as a gamer, but for me it’s more about just the gaming side. I’m an indifferent painter at best.

Out of curiosity, could someone link to the reddit discussion?

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Worth factoring in the sheer number of models needed for GW’s mass battle games, which makes any difference in price-per-model wildly more significant at the army scale. It’s occasionally hard for me to process how expensive new GW armies are now, combined with how mediocre the play experience is. And I say this as a member of the Warhammer hobby for 30 years this winter!

Also, I’ll submit that GW designs are very rarely hits for me. I fully know what a pain a very expensive plastic statue from GW will be to clean, assemble, gap fill and (theoretically) paint. You really have to do something special for me to want to buy it, and GW does not do that on the regular for me. I like cool, weird, risque or at least endearing sculpts. Personally, Dub checks maybe two of those boxes every 6-12 months :man_shrugging: And very often in games I don’t play (Necro, Warcry, Bloodbowl), which means I don’t buy them.

Is Mantic blowing me away? In the past, rarely, but nowadays? Sometimes, yes! Especially because I can 3D print official Mantic sculpts, which removes any argument I might make about assembly or material. Or frankly about price :sweat_smile:

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Same here with the GW design. I used to like it, but maybe I grew out of it, or maybe they’ve overdone it, but the minis rarely interest me. The GW aesthetic works well in the video games though.
Pricing is a weird one. There are some shops with big discounts on both ranges, at least here in Germany. The second hand market for GW offers more, well offers, but the pricing is still high, even for half painted models and stuff. Mantics models are a bit harder to find on ebay and the likes, but are dirt cheap if you find them.
The Vault is another factor. I signed up to play around with 3d printing a bit, but now? A horde of Zombie Trolls for a few Cents (+Vault sub + printer), count me in! That is a clever and innovative way to stand out! It even means I play more of Mantics games, because I am able to print a complete Armada fleet!
Overall I’d say Mantic is definetly cheaper, but not as much as it used to be.

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The future is undoubtedly one of 3D printing, if the technology continues to improve.

The only thing holding me back right now is that I don’t want another hobby / thing to learn. In financial terms it would appear running a 3D printer, in the long term, is a no-brainer. Particularly if you could print for others, even informally.

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When 3D printing works the same as 2D printing I can’t wait to see what happens.

For now if I want something 3D printed I need to find someone who can do it and negotiate a price. With 2D printing the pricing is public and I can simply send my files to the print shop via their website or by email.

I’ve seen some people (not in the Mantic community but the ‘3D Warhammer’ communities) taking advantage of people who want something 3D printed with very high prices.

3D printing will take another generation before it has the same quality as injection molding just how copy shops took a while to match professional printing.

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if 2D printing would work the same way people imagine 3D printing is going to work, nobody would make physical books anymore but buying pdfs to print at home would be the norm for a long time now

3D printing “works” currently because Warhammer is so expensive and people want a Warhammer Army for cheap. Not a knock off or very close one, but a carbon copy printed so that no one can tell the difference after painting it.

And as long as this is the main demand from printing, copyshops like for 2D printing can’t take off as printing copyright material is a problem for them.

Outside the Warhammer Bubble, the good 3D files alone cost a lot (as the is no underbidding to sell the next copy of a Space Marine), and it won’t be cheaper than buying in plastic as people focus on stuff that isn’t available in other materials, same as you get the “print on demand” books for the very niche stuff that the publishers aren’t doing

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In a Berne Convention country, everything is copyrighted at the point of creation. This post is owned by me for example.

Copy shops don’t want you to go run off a pile of cheap pirate copies books but the reality is they’re just too expensive vs. using a print on demand vs. using a professional publisher. If you took the Kings of War or Warhammer rulebook PDF to a print on demand service today you’d get a perfect copy with no questions asked.

Are people getting their cheap carbon copy Warhammer armies?

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yep, but for the simple reason that the GW prices are that high
a 3rd party resin army being cheaper than the original plastic is something very unique on the market

if people wouldn’t get the rules and models for cheap, the amount of players wouldn’t be that big (the amount of collectors for sure but people actively playing not so much)

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I thought most 3D printed armies were using proxies – are you saying they’re also using 3D scans of actual Citadel miniatures or just proxies?

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that is the main thing, yeah (though not necessarily a scan, as you get the STL files for Citadel Miniatures by the time the previews are shown, so there are people literally creating copies from the preview pics)

the proxies are the stuff a lot of people are publicly selling because this is a thing too and easy to market without getting into problems

just as an example, this was announced at Adepticon as part of the upcoming Kill Team Box:

1000×693 132 KB

this is available for free from Cults3D
516×516 16.2 KB

(not a carbon copy, as you won’t find 100% matching models public, but you get the files from the community if you want them)

this video is about printing 40k models with FDM instead of SLA but they even go that for to compare the STL models with the originals in the video to show off how close you get with FDM (and I am surprised that those kind of videos are still on there)

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Pretty wild stuff.

Are people selling printed armies in a reasonable/comparable price range?

For example, a Combat Patrol box is around $160 right now, while the Ultimate Starter Set with 77 miniatures is $210.

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While newer* GW models certainly are an impressive feat of massproduced plastic sculpture; I would rather have Mantic models**.
I collect and paint models in order to play wargames with them.
That means I want models that look good enough, paint up easily, can be built a number of ways (preferably customised) and are durable enough to be transported in a box and pushed around on a table.
Even better if models are cost effective and remain intact when dropped accidentally.

GW models are terrible at all of that.
Overdesigned such that they’re more expensive and have more detail to paint than I need or want. Finicky to build and a dread to take anywhere.

It’s like wearing a fancy suit on a hike.

*GW fantasy models from before AoS (maybe End Times?) are a different matter.
For those it’s down to nicer vs more cost effective. For dwarfs at least.
**Also Northstar and Wargames Atlantic.

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