So I have two old dark elf armies, one from Warhammer and one obsidian serpent army from Chronopia.
I play neither of those games any longer and have really been enjoying KoW. I was thinking of converting my old Dark elves, but the list is… not cooperating.
1st - how on earth do you get unlocks? Blade dancer and Impaler Regiments? Expensive. And they have no core hordes?
2nd - Man, do they get diddly from the core list? No Cav?
3nd - There’s no hydras or dragons.
4th - I have about 30 cold one riders, this would be the core of my army if I could figure it out. But what would you call them? Abyssal horsemen @240 pts? With regen? Doesn’t exactly fit my ideal. Cronebound fiends, but they don’t unlock and take up all of your unlocks. I also have quite a few of the old Dark Riders, what category would I squeeze them into?
So, if I wanted to build a Kin army with cold one knights as the core, how would I do it?
P.S. I am not complaining about the quality of the list, they get some great stuff from Nightwalkers and abyss, I just can’t figure out how to work it in.
Maybe I just go with a straight elf list? I could get my cold ones (stormwind), Infantry horde (palace guard), and dragons, but I then I would have to give up gargoyles, shadow hounds, shadow hulk and summoner crone?
Tallspears and Archer hordes both unlock, then you’ve also got Sea Guard hordes but they’re irregular for Kin.
Silverbreeze are the only Elf cav (so like Dark Riders?), still irregular tho.
Yeaaaaa the only monster is the Mindscreech and the only titans are Shadow Hulk and Archfiend hero Indeed, that is kinda lame for fitting models in, wish there was a generic 50mm monster available for hydras and whatever. Guess all those black dragons out there are now Archfiends …
You will very much see cold one knights as Cronebound Abyssal Horsemen now, for lack of options but also because CAH regiments are very good in Kin, and in the game as a whole. From what I’ve seen and can figure, CAH + Crones to further heal them are the competitive play in 3E Kin.
EDIT: If you really want a hydra, maybe take Nature allies, as that’s where it ended up? Centaur Bray Strider (cold one knights) or Bray Hunter (dark riders) regiment for the unlock?
Thank you for the reply, Boss.
I don’t see Cronebound Abyssal Horsemen as terribly competitive given their points cost, and their nerve is not so high that their Regen will necessarily come into play, but I don’t have enough competitive experience (yet) to make that call I guess. For me, the profile just doesn’t fit the models super well, and I am always struggling to conform models to lists (at least, with KOW, I have lots of model flexibility).
If you don’t mind, what would you take for unlocks: Tallspear or archer hoards (seem like the weakest hordes in the elf list)? Or would you just go with regiments of impalers and blade dancers (seems like a costly, deadly but fragile option)?
Yeah, I guess my dragon centerpiece is now an archfiend? The stats are fine I guess, if I don’t get hung up on the unit name.
Spearmen horde will be one of my unlocking units. They are a fairly decent choice and unlock a good number of units.
Horsemen may have slightly low nerve but with a combination of regen and healing from drain life they can grind pretty well. Also they unlock too which is a bonus.
I find the Twillight Kin to be easier to make lists for than the elves (well, unless you just spam Palace Guard hordes that is).
With Gargoyles you have the chaff you would need to prevent most charges to ever destroy your regiments of hard hitters, and you can also use tall spear regiments or hordes (I kinda like 3x tall spear regiments) to stop the quick chargers and then I can just smash them to bits with a unit like Blade Dancers (and banechant of course).
All that being said, there are other armies which gets better choices for quite cheap points (looking at you Ogres!)
So you are saying that you find the elves lack of chaff options to be an issue, or that having quality chaff makes list building easier? I have heard this from lots of groups. However, in my meta I see lots of grind-y armies with high defense, regeneration, and healing. Chaff laden armies struggle against these unless the chaff flies and the scenario spreads out objectives. To beat these armies, the approach has been point-efficient punch (alpha strike), and this is the primary angle from which I was trying to create a Twilight Kin list.
Also, in my group I haven’t seen phalanx pay off except against alpha strike armies. The Twilight have so few core units, and with tall spears seeming pretty so-so, and archers being poor I was wondering what people were taking for core regiments/hordes. The answer from most people seems to be spears, so I assume other people are seeing more alpha strike opponents.
Think the tallspears are a perfectly solid unit for unlocks - a horde with measured force isn’t going anywhere quickly and can kick out a decent amount of damage. It also helps v the high de6 grind stuff mentioned as well as enemy alpha strikes.
There is plenty of good stuff in the TK list - but what it can’t do is an old school whfb dark elf list.
While archers weren’t what they were, they arestill a unlock and can play a role
The chaff is mostly there to prevent your soft glass cannons (Blade Dancers, Impalers and even Abyssal Horsemen) from getting charged and taken out before they can get their alphastrikes in. I find both elves and twillight kin to be pure alphastrike armies now that archers got nerfed so hard (that they are just a waste of points… don’t take them). They definitly don’t win any grind battles, so they have to take out their enemies quickly.
The spears are just cheaper steady points which can take a charge and also dash out some damage… but most importantly take objectives. The key to the army is to kill off more than you lose, and that means using a combination of chaff and the alphastriker units well.
My recent lists has included 4 gargoyle troops together with a mix of 4 choices of blade dancers, impalers and abyssal horsemen (and usually at least 2 crones and a bit of different stuff otherwise), and I feel like the three damage dealer choices are quite good. Expensive yes, but with the rather cheap chaff you can often outdeploy your opponents and manage to punch a hole in the defenses at some weak point of the enemy army.
Indeed, that is kinda lame for fitting models in, wish there was a generic 50mm monster available for hydras and whatever. Guess all those black dragons out there are now Archfiends …