Sounds like it to me.
I get the sense that KoW is getting an overhaul for 4th, so potentially a lot of changes.
16 companies already planned with more to follow.
Ronnie didn’t disagree when Rob was justifying reducing factions, and Ronnie was talking about how to do it respectfully. So the number of factions is at least up for review.
Given that unique commands/orders are built into Champions that potentially may be how things will go in v4?
Streamlining factions or at least coming up with with a smoother method of building variants isn’t a bad idea in general.
16+ fair enough thanks for clarifying. Misheard that bit, i didnt fancy listening again to check it, as i wasnt 100%.
I tried just for fun selecting 16 based on model coverage. Etc. Ended up at 18 with 1 being (no models) human faction added alongside Basilia and Northern A.
Alessio said there were 2 magic systems currently. Im sure from clask of kings 24 uk interview with Steve on countercharge podcast.
And Kyle said someone on the commandments does the same thing as magic items which firefight (i think) doesnt have.
So i agree looks like a decent amount of slimdown and change.
If you listen to the interviews Cavatore has done since he sold River Horse back to Mantic, you can draw your own conclusions. I got the distinct impression that he is not a fan of rules design by committee, and would consider himself to be a pro who is going to come in and take the knife to bloat.
It’s funny, because the vibe on Fanatics is that a lot of the people who would rather the game stay quite mechanistic are worried about the future direction Mantic might take… But if you listen to those interviews with Alessio, I think in many ways they might find him an ally.
I could imagine a radical consolidation of how magic items, spells and faction rules are employed. That would be a simplification, but I think in an effort to create more flavour Mantic might seek to boost the amount of things that are faction specific.
In summary I could imagine 4th having a rule set that is significantly redrafted in many areas, but is actually hopefully even clearer than 3.5 is now.
I don’t see command dice as a continuing thing anymore, and to be honest they might just have proven too divisive in the community to go forward with, but I could imagine something like faction specific commands that commanders allow access to (a la Champions).
Regarding slimming of the available lists, my feeling after listening to the latest podcast is that it’ll occur, but it might not be as harsh a some fear, and Mantic appear to want to handle it sensitively.
A magic system overhaul is what I’d love to see for the game. I think it’s pretty lame that the casters all have the same spells. I get that it’s for simplicity’s sake, but i’d love for factions to have their own magics, like frost spells exclusive to NA, or necromancy spells that can bring back dead units for undead and EOD. I think just a few unique spells per faction would be a really great addition to the game that would help a lot for the magic phase of the game.
When 3rd released there wasn’t an arcane library, so casters could only take the spells that were listed in their profile.
So some spells were only available to certain casters in certain factions.
There always seem to be people loudly demanding more spells for everyone, though.
oh? i wasn’t aware of that. I’ll take the l on that one.
As much as I like that fluff-wise, I despise it gameplay-wise. I still remember those aweful WHFB days as an Undead player where you had to build an army and then have half an army as extra models to ‘resurrect’. I think lifeleech and heal cover the necromancy aspect quite good without being complicated or as annoying as it was back in the days.
I agree … that mechanic of plonking down several D6 worth of skeletons on the table was very thematic but impractical.
The closest way I can think that it could work, in KOW, would be to go with some kind of outright ‘respawn’ mechanic for particular units like skeleton warriors, skeleton spearmen and archers. Respawn them in the deployment zone, or near to it, as a 4 point command order or spell or whatever.
Not saying it would be a good idea, but it would be do-able. The implications would have to be thought through and I guess the value would be dependent on the scenario being played.
When it comes to spells and factions I must admit I still have a soft spot for the Dark Millennium psychic powers supplement from Warhammer 40K 2nd edition. I never used the WHFB equivalent. To be honest, I enjoyed psychic / magic phases, and you really did sense the power of these individuals on the battlefield. Obviously you sensed it WAY TOO MUCH on many occasions! That was the issue. It was time consuming to have a dedicated psychic / magic phase as well.
Respawn or Summoning doesn’t work well unlike everyone gets it.
It is impossible to get the points right for it and if you balance around it people have to use it.
So you would need a necromancer doing only summoning and nothing else and his point costs need to reflect the additional units
And at that point it is thematic but not different to just buying the units straight away
What can work is delayed deployment, like D3 skeleton units are deployed after the opponent got the last model in to count for theme of summoning
Or late deployment like D3 skeleton units are deployed in 2nd turn around the necromancer
Please no summoning in Kings ever. It’s been broken and feel-bad in every game I’ve ever played.
Not sad about thematic spells, but also not sad about the current striped down magic system.
From the Counter Charge episode interview with Ronnie at Adepticon, there’s a release coming near the end of the year that’s been mentioned in the “fluff”.
The last page of the last Clask of Kings mentions Morgoth returning.
Which together indicate new undead models coming.
What do you think?
Undead are always such a big seller, I imagine they’ll be a big release.
I like that Mantic undead is still quite generic Hammer Horror style (like earlier GW undead).
GW undead is so divided up and stylised they dont appeal at all.
Agreed on all points.
I’m busy painting undead at the moment.
The plastic skeletons and zombies are great from Mantic, though more opions for the zombies would be nice.
The zombie trolls are cool enough that I’m willing to do them in metal.
I got non-Mantic for most of the rest though. The range could do with an update.
Well the Clash of Kings 2025 edition ended with Mhorgoth reappearing while casually obliterating a badly mauled Twilight Kin fleet.
So that combined with the new vault exclusive model, yeah I can see the undead getting an update this year.
They print really well too, big and chunky (like all Mantic stuff).
New z-dragon is unexpected and great!
Some new non-human Zombies, plastic vampires and a proper cavalry kit would be nice but everything else is fine
I just fear if they ever update them, they take away the Army of Darkness look which I really like
I agree with all of you. New Undead are very welcome, but I hope they keep the style. Most Mantic Undead are pretty cool. The Zombie Trolls, do print really well indeed. I printed myself a horde and there will be more. Today I sliced the Vampire Lord on Zombiedragon. That thing is massive! It will take me 7 print sessions on my small printer, not considering possible misprints. But the fact that we get a new and fantastic model to print is brilliant. I really like the Vault!
The first Zombiedragon parts are done, the gas clouds:
