KoW in 2025

The horse-- am I right in thinking this is a shot of 3D digital sculpting, rather than the likely final pose…? It’s obviously very static.

1 Like

I’d certainly presume so - similarly the paladin hopefully gets a weapon :wink:

A small update for KoW by @SteveDeathByDragons

1 Like

Unexpectedly hearty changes! Even if plenty of the most feel-bad orders are left unchanged (NS, Halflings, etc) at least you vaguely need to pay some points to unlock them. Or just roll well on your 3 reds :stuck_out_tongue:

I think this is the full list, pulled from the errata on the Mantic Companion:

Clash of Kings 2025

Pg 1: Add the following under Additional Rules Development: Steve Hilldrew
Pg 11: Amend the “Hellfires” Command Orders description to: This unit gains the Fireball (8) Spell until the end of the Turn. This Order may not be used on units with the Unit Type: Hero (n).
Pg 13: Abyssal Berserkers: Remove the Skinner Keyword, Add the Berserker Keyword.
Pg 13: Abyssal Nagarri Amend Me 3+
Pg 15: Archfiend of the Abyss: add the Fireball 10 ranged attack and include the following option: Gain the Regeneration (5+) Special Rule for +25 pts
Pg 15: Abyssal Warlock: Amend the Sp to 6, Me to 4+, De to 4+, Unit Strength to 1, and Attacks to 5.
Pg 16: Mau’ti-bu-su [1]: Amend the Sp to 10.
Pg 16: Lord of Lies [1]: Add the unit type Hero(Titan). include the following option: Gain the Regeneration (5+) Special Rule for +25 pts
Pg 28: Riverguard: Add the following Unique Special rule: Ambush: This unit is not considered irregular when building an Ambush army list even though it has the Fly special rule.
Pg 47: Add the following under Arcane Library Changes: Celestial Restoration: Add the following text: Dice rolled to hit with Celestial Restoration may not be rerolled by any means.

Pg 47: Amend the following under Generating The Command Pool: “Roll one red, one white, and one blue Command Die” to: Roll three red Command Dice
Pg48: Amend the “Accuracy” Command orders description to: When the unit rolls to hit in Melee or at Range (excluding spells), it can re-roll one of the dice that failed to hit. The order should be declared before rolling to hit and its effects end as soon as that attack is resolved. A unit given this Order may not use the Blast Special Rule for this Turn.
Pg 49: Amend the “Diabolical Fervour” Command orders description to: Infantry or Heavy Infantry unit only. This unit gains the Elite (Melee) Special Rule until the end of the Turn.
Pg 53: Amend the “Rock and Stone” Command Orders description to: Troops and Regiments with the Dwarf Keyword only. Unit gains the Vengeance Unique Special rule. Vengeance: While Counter Charging, this unit has Crushing Strength (+1) until the end of the Turn.
Pg 53: Amend the “Magical Resistance” Command Orders description to: This order can be used twice per player Turn. This unit gains the Spellward Special Rule until the start of its following Turn.
Pg 58: Add Madriga the Elf [1] and Nimue Waydancer [1] to the list of units that can purchase Command (n).
Pg 58: Riverguard: Add the following Unique Special rule: Leaper: This unit treats its height as 3 (modified by terrain as normal) when drawing Line of Sight.
Pg 60: Add the following line to Enslaved Guardians: Remove the following option: Casket of the Damned for +10 pts
Pg 60: Add the following line to Enslaved Guardian Archers: Remove the following option: Casket of the Damned for +10 pts
Pg 60: Add an * to Skeleton Archer Cavalry
Pg 60: Amend the Monolith text to read: At the start of a friendly Ranged phase in which this unit has not Issued an At the Double Order, you may cast Surge (8) on a single Friendly Core unit anywhere within 24” of this unit ignoring Line of Sight and Arc restrictions. The Monolith cannot be disordered and its Base size cannot be increased beyond 75x75mm.
Pg 63: Amend the “Silent Feet” Command Orders description to: Non-Titan unit only. This unit gains the Stealthy Special rule until the start of its following Turn.
Pg 64: Amend the “Silent Feet” Command Orders description to: Non-Titan unit only. This unit gains the Stealthy Special rule until the start of its following Turn.
Pg 67: Amend the “Magical Resistance” Command Orders description to: This order can be used twice per player Turn. This unit gains the Spellward Special Rule until the start of its following Turn.
Pg 71: Amend the “Show of Strength” Command Orders Phase to: Melee
Pg 72: Amend the “Show of Strength” Command Orders Phase to: Melee
Pg 72: Amend the “Early Payment” Command Orders Phase to: Movement
Pg 73: Amend the “Show of Strength” Command Orders Phase to: Melee
Pg 73: Amend the “Hidden Paths” Command Orders Phase to: Movement
Pg 74: Amend the “Garkan’s Rage” Command Orders Phase to: Melee
Pg 74: Amend the “Riftcharged” Command Orders description to: Unit with Riftforged Keyword Only. This unit gains the Lightning Bolt (4) spell until the end of the turn. This Order may not be used on units with the Unit Type: Hero (n).
Pg 76: Amend the “Hellfires” Command Orders description to: This unit gains the Fireball (8) Spell until the end of the Turn. This Order may not be used on units with the Unit Type: Hero (n).
Pg 78: Amend the “Unholy Puppets” Command Orders description to: This unit gains the Drain Life (5) Spell until the end of the Turn. This Order may not be used on units with the Unit Type: Hero (n).
Pg 79: Amend the “Feared” Command Orders Phase to: Melee
Pg 79: Amend the “Void Sacrifice” Command Orders Phase to: Ranged
Pg 79: Add an * to Void Touched Weavers and Bound Ravagers,
Pg 82. Add after Loot Token Scenarios heading “A Unit may only score up to its Unit Strength in Loot Tokens”
Pg 84. Awakened Giants Add before Giants heading “Until they move at the end of the first Round, treat all Giants as blocking terrain.”

2 Likes

I don’t have an issue with any of the changes there.

Even though I quite like command dice, I think making people pay to obtain them versus providing a relatively generous pool by default probably makes sense all around.

Nice to see a reasonable buff for the Nagarri, I’ve commented before about their model scale versus how they actually perform. This narrows the gap a little bit.

Funnily enough my son was banging on about casket of the damned and enslaved guardians at the weekend, so this clarifies matters for him!

2 Likes

Following the release of the hard plastic Basilean paladin knights (which is progress, even if personally i don’t like the sculpt/style) there was a query raised about a refresh of the elves.

Just confirmation that nothing is happening in the foreseeable future.

The last reliable information I got for Elves was in September 2024 from Ronnie saying “ask again this time next year”, so September 2025

Ronnies unscripted Counter Charge podcast today does mention a few KOW refresh related bits

  • November… Halpi’s Rift related release (they said its something mentioned in the lore but "no one is taking about it’ (my interpretation at least)
  • Champions boxes will reach 16 and Ronnie mentioned what sounded like hard plastic kits and little bits arriving at regular intervals for factions that have decent coverage already… but also some old favourites getting some love (Dwarves? Elves? He obviously talked about female dwarf berserkers which seemed to be his personal concept)
  • Brothermark as wandering beggar knights seems a thing…
1 Like

So they might decide when they will hopefully get around to refreshing elves by September?

1 Like

My personal guess is that they are fleshing out 4th Edition model range plans over 2025 to decide which ones going core, which ones are in need of a refresh and how to make the classic ones more unique to Mantic.

1 Like

The way Ronnie’s comments, concerning this unannounced end of year release, sounded to me was that it was going to be a drop relating to either a new faction - or a lore-driven update to a faction in an unexpected way.

He has said the clue is in the Halpi’s Rift lore… So what does that suggest, exactly?

You mention elves, I understood from Fanatics people are thinking more Golloch-related dwarf activity…

Being introduced in Halpis Rift could be anything from free dwarf infantry up to the Xirkaali Empire.
there was a lot in the story no ones talks about, and in addition, they mention in the past that we may see 2 armies updated and a full refresh of a 3rd (so it can really be anything from a Monster to a full faction)

also Ronnie mentions female Berserkers as an idea on how to give units background (and females going crazy while being a nice idea in the context of dwarf society, not necessary something that ages well, specially as the Dwarfs going berserk because of curse from the wicked ones)

also saying that each time a new plastic kit is released there will be a Champion box, so this could add the possibility of getting a another Basilea Box of Sisterhoods get a plastic update

Not sure if it is something to be taken serious, since it was said during April 1st, when the new mantic points models were revealed. (Soon Garrek Heavyhand you shall be on my table. menacingly rub hands.)
Somebody mentioned they looked forward to the day Ronnie would green light the production of a refresh of the dwarfs to match the new Garrek model.
And he replied to this with “Hold my beer.”

Was the Berserker lore changed recently?
I thought the lore of the Red Curse was that these were Dwarves who fell victim to great emotional distress due to exile, personal lose, being unable to perform their craft anymore. or became addicted to the emotional highs they experienced during combat.
As far as I remember avarice was the way the Wicked Ones lured Dwarfs on the path of damnation.

This is (barring anything that has appeared in the subsequent dwarf related novels) is still the berserker background.

1 Like

Yes, this was the lore segment I was thinking about, my apologies I should have clarified I was referring to info I remembered from the Great Green Book.
I did not immediately had it at hand at that moment so didn’t want to definitively say the source in case I was inaccurate.

In the podcast he presented an idea of a berserker as a wife who has lost her husband (and family), and who didn’t want to live anymore… so dons her husbands armour and goes into battle. He sounded pretty keen on the idea to me. Didn’t come across as an april fools.

His idea has drama and pathos… and it’s not actually incompatible with that lore segment, really…

Suspect lore can evolve in a refresh anyway. Especially if it’s Ronnie’s idea.

Was he just airing a cool idea he had though, or something that’s actually happening…

3 Likes

Just wanted to mention something I haven’t seen talked about yet.

Ronnie mentioned in the Counter Charge Unscripted that command dice work when they are fun, but he seemed (in his tone) to be pretty lukewarm about how they were going in KOW. He referenced that they are baked into the design of games like Deadzone, and I took that as a bit of an explanation as to why they hadn’t been as well received in KOW.

Are they considered, in current form, to be a failed experiment (by Ronnie at least)?

Would need a re listen, but what did others think?

This was already something very early on that something like command dice doesn’t work well as add-on compared to games that are build around such a mechanic

The game itself loses its elegance when rules are added to the framework
But this isn’t new, we saw similar from 2nd to 3rd edition were things went from add-ons to core mechanics or were removed because they didn’t work

I think its KOW4 is going to be a fairly big change, which will slimmed down rule set which offers flexibility.

I.e. commandments was a way to possibly see if they can replace all the auras and rules added but allows flexibility to deliver without each unit needing too many special rules.

Likewise they want to slim down the number of armies, mantic armies are priority and then manticifying the generic & gw armies (rfit > orcs) without people drifting away. It makes commercial sense but risk and and reward is high. They dont want an end times>Aos moment.

The halpis rift event is the above happening, using a campaign/book to consolidate armies and mantic them.
Pride of a king is great book and worth a read and i think has that reveal. There is the 2nd book coming out maybe end of the year. War of the stone is it called in book1.
Expect dwarves kow4 list to look more mantic but allows GW users some movement.

The other thing is champions has 16 warbands, is that the target for kow lists dont know. Elves dwarves will have to have a place.

Maybe dwarves this year will have 1 list and if you choose good you can take a,b,c but if you choose evil you can take x,y,z. But l,m,n,o,p options are for either.
Just a guess, 2 might be end point.

Things like herd, brothermark probably get merged into master lists.

Elves maybe get a big twilight kin treatment, mantic and models at some point.

Kow & league who knows.

But overall sounds like mantic are doing well and halo is massive.

1 Like