Let's talk about theme lists

What makes a good theme list?

It looks like a good idea from a design (possibly even business)point of view to have some overlap between lists and models that are in multiple armies.

The challenge seems to be making a theme list worthwhile. What makes it different to just playing the master list with allies?

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One obvious one is that you can get in units that you couldnt ally in to begin with - so often light, specialised or shooting units which would be otherwise irregular.

The alignment shift is an interesting one (although mainly in narrative context or when that army subsequently takes allies).

Introducing new units for thematic reasons- LLs for same reason

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I think a good theme list brings together models from 2 different armies that people want but with another way to play them (oterhwise you can use them as allied units)

there might be only one playstyle but with a strong theme and background compared to the more generic/universal master list

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I think it’s less about overlap and more in line with having a sub-faction of a faction, although there are admittedly hybrid lists in there too.

What I’d like to do in the future is use it to explore the weirder and more niche aspects of armies. Like, what would a Halfling army from Ej look like? Or a particular Kingdom of Men?

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I’d love to see some KoM ideas, outside of Rhodia. Anyone got one they’ve come up with?

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well, for KoM you can fill a historical (or mythical-historical) supplement with theme lists if you want

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Theme Lists should take a part of the Master List and enhance it. Either through adding unique options, or cross-army allies that benefit from the auras/synergies available.

LLs are interesting ideas, but usually a basic mage is better. Foot heroes struggle to be relevant, so… yeah. They’re nice flavour but practically they don’t seem to do too much. Am I talking about Sylvan Kin? Yeah…

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Good thematically, good well balanced, good competitively, good for legacy armies, good for business?

It’s going to be a bit of a mix of those, but there’s some tension there too.

Looking at them in their own right (ignoring legacy armies and sales), I’d say you’d want the theme list to do something different to the master list, the rules to capture the theme, and to be internally balanced with more than one way to build a reasonably competitive list (basically like any good master list).

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For Mantic I guess that theme lists are a mixed bag, that are on balance worth their while.

They allow them to get in players that have those armies and introduce them to Mantic options/minis, e.g. OotGL and Water & Earth Elementals, or The Herd and Forest Shamblers & Tree Herders, etc.

On the other hand, other manufacturers will probably do a lot of theme lists better - just down to them producing very specific miniatures more closely tailored to the theme.

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We obviously haven’t had too much in the way of KoM background (and theme lists need to be fluff based imo) but the obvious one is Ophidians.

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i’d love to see a Sathoi list… the region is known for its mercenary companies so you could have some fun with Dogs of War, Ogres ,and other warriors for hire in the list to give it a unique feel.

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What makes a good theme list?

Something that shifts the master list in another direction (thematically and technically) that allows you to combine different ranges for variety. Maybe let you infuse an old range with some of the new hotness?

A perfect example for me is twilight kin. Fuse those older elf models with newer nightstalkers. Why not just play nightstalkers or elves? Maybe I want some evil fluff elves and I like my nightstalkers with a little mortal/real world motivation!

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They do allow for options that people expect to see turning up at a fantasy game - What no evil elves? What about the one that live in the forest?

I don’t see much prospect of Kingdoms of Men theme lists as understandably Mantic want to sell Mantic miniatures. Rhordia was an exception to accommodate to Empire players. Much more likely to see humanish theme lists spun off Basilea, Northern Alliance or perhaps Halflings.

I’m interested to see what happens to Rhordia (and KoM in general) long-term. Some theme lists seem more secure as they’re based on Mantic ranges - Twilight Kin for example.

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I guess another thing to ponder is, how many units do you need to take from the “original” list for it to still reflect it?

I’ve been trying to write my own theme list, and I’m not sure if I’m taking enough from the original list or not.

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Also the abyssal units and cronebound. :upside_down_face:

I think Twilight-Kin are a good example of how to get a theme list right too.
They let you do something you couldn’t with allies (take units from 3 lists) and do something different with those units (long range drain life).
Butchers in Twilight-Kin play differently to in Night-stalkers (right?).

Another example is the Brotherhood.
Order of the Green lady offer a combination of knights and elementals that you couldn’t quite do otherwise (sacred water synergies could be better though).
Brothermark on the other hand have cool unique units, but you can do a very similar list with KoM or Basilea.

While I would like some fluff, I’m not sure this is the right approach.
You can take a list and theme it through unit choice and modeling/painting style to be unique from another army from the same faction. KoW has the flexibility to make an army your own.

Theme lists need offer a unique experience.
The mercenary ogres plus humans list @MithrilCoyote suggested sounds interesting. Could have a variation of Indomitable Will that’s themed to mercenaries.

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