I mean the ushabti were about £31 before, now they’re £52. If they were metal from Mantic they’d be maybe £25.
20 to 40 euros less is a huge amount, and they’re generally a similar points value, plus the rules are free, and you don’t need templates.
The Tomb Guard plastics are £47.50 for twenty models. Mantic boxes are £25 for twenty models. The prices aren’t remotely comparable.
From a price point, the Bret/Tomb King boxed sets are pretty reasonable value for what you get, obviously if you want to get into the game.
If you are just wanting the models (for KoW or earlier WFB versions etc) - and i would like to get a bunch of M@As purely for the former - then it becomes more an issue.
Base size changes, esp since using mainly old models which fit ok on original ones, is odd and another put off, even for those still using individually based models in KoW.
In the local gaming community, there isn’t much crossover between the KoW/AoS/9th Age players abd stick to their own turf - the first don’t seem bothered in ToW, the middle lot pretty ambivalent and while a number of the latter have shown interest it’s hardly a roaring success/uptake.
And plentiful 3rd party models out there as well, so the gw price point seems weird?
This is TTCombat/Max Mini ‘dry undead’ army - resin models and have plenty of extra fun stuff - dragon, giant, chariots etc.
It isn’t as good quality as mantic stuff, but it’s £100 (6 old metal GW ushabti are £105!!)
Realistically, a mix of Mantic hard plastics / TT combat/ Reaper Bones and probably some GW is the way to go for the army. to get the best looking minis at the lowest price points.
If you have a 3D printer, that Mantic % increases since there’s a lot of good stuff in the vault (hopefully guardians get added soon too!)
Rather than start a new thread, I’m bumping this, because we’re a year on since the last post.
I think it would be interesting to do a check on where the TOW is, versus soon after its release, and gauge how it has impacted on KOW (if at all).
What are people seeing in their localities, online etc. ?
My random thoughts:-
- I know only 1 TOW player, he acknowledges that KOW might even be an objectively better rule set, and cheaper to collect, but he admits brand loyalty and obsession with years and years of lore and brand development mean he’ll never walk away
- That person’s gaming group for TOW is already larger than any KOW gaming group in Ireland, which kind of shows the reach I guess
- Pricing of TOW appears comparatively “good” by GW standards and this is holding, but I see a lot of discussion by more open-minded TOW players online who are talking about 3D printing and also model proxying. The conversations are almost hesitant, in some cases… Model proxying and use of 3rd party models, in particular, still seems to be a bit taboo among some players. In the future, though, does 3D printing really undermine the GW pricing structure for models? How do they combat that? It’s an issue for Mantic too, but of course Mantic have the Vault, and their pricing is more competitive than GW which might mean someone on the fence goes with a Mantic model if they have a choice.
- Personally, I don’t think I could face longer, slower games but a TOW rule-book in hardback IS on my “to buy” list, just out of curiosity.
- Some funny interactions are occurring between AOS and TOW players. I read one exchange where a bunch of AOS players were telling TOW people to “shut up, now that you have your ugly models and old-fashioned game back”. The TOW were posting under any news of new AOS products, asking why anyone would play AOS when TOW existed now.
GWs reach and marketing combined with brand loyalty and nostalgia helped TOW to get a large playerbase in a short time
And the GW marketing is good in making people accept bad rules because it is a casual game and blaming “competitive” people as the problem
Yet we already see clouds on the sky as what GW wants from the game and what players expect are not in line (like with Las Vegas open were the Tournament Organisator rather dropped the “official GW event” titel than banning legacy armies as requested by GW)
Also there is some hate between the AoS and TOW community for no real reason other than hating the company behind the games but not wanting to give the brand loyalty up. This creates a toxic environment which doesn’t go well with new people who won’t understand the context.
(A community that is together because they share the love for the game has an advantage over those who just together because they hate something else more, even if it is smaller)
I suspect TOW to stay and expand, but not with the current lineup but this just being the starter to get lot of people in and than replacing the existing factions with new ones over time
Like we are going to see Cathay, which needs all new models and an army book, Estalia was named and would need all new models and a book, Chaos Dwarfs being teased, same again
So if the game stays, all the nostalgia might be replaced with new factions with new models and everything old will be a legacy army in the future.
And this might not go well with the current community and only works if there are enough new people to carry it.
So overall it depends were both games are going from now
I see current KoW in a development stage between 5th Edition Warhammer, as game and with background (background is taken more seriously now, 4th might see some streamlining, changes to armies without models), having the option to become a great and interesting setting by fleshing out the background into a more serious and detailed setting and keeping the gameplay more interesting by adding narrative (KoW could benefit a lot by campaign books with “historical” battles)
While TOW has a good chance to upset the returning players again, either by not getting much support in future, or by taking the road of leaving old and nostalgia behind
I agree with you it seems likely GW will presumably be trying to steer this ship (relatively quickly) towards new lines of models, entirely their own intellectual property.
Well this is what I mentioned a year back and it is worth repeating. My interest in the old world was purely based on some old kits returning and new fantasy armies that are not over represented already. Now everyone including 3d print companies does Egyptian undead or other factions heavily influenced by GW. Cathay would at least be fresh and inspire new copycats. So many creators just follow the GW aesthetic so let’s at least get more variety for people to copy.
Game wise though. I want those miniatures for DND or for Kings of War (at least at 28mm scale). And, I want them for armies where my vision of the army matches with an army list’s rules, but not necessarily the models released by Mantic.
I occasionally get to my local Warhammer store as it’s near my hospital. I’ve yet to see anyone playing or painting it. Just a few people with previous edition models.
I’ve also never seen it played in-store when I’ve been in. I wonder if it’s the practicality of ranking up all those guys? Multi-basing is such a joy in that regard.
I do know a number of people who have bought into it, though.
It’s probably being played more extensively in Dublin than KOW is, unfortunately. GW are just a big beast.
The one thing that has always kept me playing KOW especially tournaments is the fact that KOW dont care what figures you use, Plus Mantic listen to thier players, eg Ogres I didn’t like thier ogres at first as I thought the legs looked way to slim to support such a bulky body but the new ones look way better and more like what an ogre should be but as with all things this is just my own opinion