Greetings! While the old thread was great, I figured a new edition deserves a new thread. As before, below is a link to the new catch-all page for my 4th Edition reports, and I’ll update the thread here instead of spamming the channel with new threads for everything I get up to.
I have decided not to report on any demo games I run, but everything else will stay the same. I endeavor to not run the same list twice, outside of a tournament setting, and (for better or for worse!) I aim to still have plenty of blabbering from me dissecting my own play and thinking and list ideas, as well as highlighting and correcting rules goofs as they inevitably do arise. Thanks and enjoy! New reports coming soon!
And we are off to the races! While my playgroup all have decent collections, 4th Edition has obviously changed things up a lot. List building is different, and many units were culled while army rosters were greatly consolidated, all impacting many collections and viable lists. Not to mention individual heroes jumping up to some larger square bases! To help ease us all into this, I had been advocating for some quick 1000 point games throughout the play group to encourage folks to revisit collections and explore things with some speedy games.
First up for 4th Edition was a get-together with Trevor from Data and Dice.
Battle 001 was Flame Bearer Abyssals vs Basileans in Invade. In smaller games, the dice get pretty determinative. I dive a little deeper in the report, but I won’t focus on tactics, details, or results here, sticking to some generalities.
The Core for my Abyssals was a concern with the transition, as I lost out on my favorite Abyssal Guard, and they don’t seem to have heroes to shift slots around or make anything else Core. Everything for the Core has some big draw back, and with my missing unit, will necessitate rethinking my approach to the army.
Many units designed to move and shoot in previous editions seem to have taken a hit in 4th. Stuff like FoN Scorchwings, NA Pack Hunters (w/ Javelins) and FoA Flame Bearers all took dings to their SH value. It’s nice getting a benefit for standing still, but this just gets them back to their previous value, and the lack of mobility hurts, when everything else is getting extra pivots and being much more dynamic. I put myself in a weird position this game to explore, and I think with a Flame Bearer core, you need to plan on going second and likely playing from behind a bit.
Cavalry got some neat buffs for 4th, with many getting TC3, and the extra pivot in the movement phase. They also got a general nerf, with Hindered charges now stripping all TC, and almost all Cav losing CS entirely. That’s rough, as shown here. Cavalry need more finesse than previously to do well, and I think the J Boots will be the item for them in 4th, making the unit type a one-of in most lists. We’ll poke Trevor here, and I’ll predict that J Boots will be the most popular magic item in 2026.
Abyssals were neat, and I learned a lot, but I have a lot of thinking to do before I field them again!
Fun game–I think 4th played more intuitively and cleaner, though we weren’t playing particularly well and both made some goofs with the new rules. Looking forward to getting in more games!
Thanks! I’m glad you enjoyed it, and I’ll have more shared here soon.
The old distinction between Lightning Bolt and Fireball just always fell flat to me, and it was hard to justify taking Fireball. Blast on a Fireball just feels nice. The spell seems alright at clearing out chaff, and getting it via a Command Order for the Abyssals should be fun, as it should pair nicely with Imps and Gargoyles and such, like I tried here. I like the change!
I took the Varangur as I wanted a low-stakes game to test them out. In the edition shift we lost the Draugr, the Magi and (almost) every the cool and unique unit, and I was feeling a bit down about the army and my collection. The Varangur were rolled back into the master Northern Alliance list, and their unique options have been slimmed down to an earthbound Magnilde, as a Warlord, which you need to take in order to unlock the now-striding Fallen and Hearthguard Thunderers (bland knights).
Magnilde does ok for fighting individual. All those characters seem to be in a bit of a rough place, but her speed lets her contribute still, and she’s got good stats otherwise. It’s ignoble, but I think most fighty characters are going to be relegated to fighting Zombies and other “safe” targets. They are more important than ever, more expensive than ever, but more awkward than ever with only two units engaged per-facing.
Fallen are ok. Striding is neat but terrain slows them down now, so they are not as mobile, and seem like more of a support unit, sent out to tie something up so a hammer can get into place, or add just a little more damage into a push, since they are limited to CS1. Here I took the Brew of Strength on them to turn them into something more threatening, and it paid off in both games as they were able to get the jump on a slower unit. Basic Fallen alongside the Striding Frostfang Cavalry could definitely be an idea for some big Round 2 charges though, and I’ll keep that in mind for the future.
My collection is going to struggle to mimic the variety of the normal Northern Alliance, but it looks like I can still play the army as a sturdy, elite list now. I’m missing all the old fun picks, but it was nice to see that my collection could throw something sensible together in 4th!
Well, I had a loose New Years resolution to try and keep my report thread on the front page for 2026, but I’ve been slacking, and I think I was bumped almost immediately! It is good so see so many thread popping up on the Forum.
Jumping right into big games and/or new armies has a tendency to goof up a lot of rules, and just not make for the best of games, so up now are two smaller games from a December meetup, where I had been encouraging attendees to bring multiple 1,000 point lists and just try things out.
We have a pair of events coming up in early February, and I’ve committed to myself to finally run the Herd for the two-day GT. The new edition has done a number on the army, but my Guardian Brutes remain and are reborn, so we’re just going to give it a go and see how we do. To that end, I ended using these games to test out some ideas. Overall…
Forces of Nature is stretched really thin between Elementals, Verdant, Herd and Brotherhood units, with no faction really being supported very well. Similar to drafting MTG, I think it’s probably wise to stick with one faction, and “splash” just one more.
Herd is going to be my main faction. The Chieftain did well, and Brutes and Longhorns seem like fun units and will likely be the bulk of my list. I just played some larger test games, and reports will be coming soon, but dice were dice here, and my Herd in 004 did not have a good showing.
The Pathfinder change is rough on my brain. I tried playing the first game like the previous edition and just about every charge was hindered. In 3rd, Pathfinder was great at angling around, applying pressure, and getting some good engagements; in 4th I think it will actually be better late game, letting units get where they need to be to contest and score, and not necessarily to fight.
The FoN does have decent orders, and can get Striding Charges from those orders, but those are not guaranteed. Plenty of reasons to avoid terrain now, which is a bummer for the army.
Second game was exploring Forest Shamblers and Surge potential. Going full verdant probably would have been a better test. Druid and Centaur Chief with the Tome seem ok as supplementary surge casters, but it seem like a better idea to take a primary caster that supports your traits/faction.
Forest Shamblers looked ok on paper, but didn’t have a good match up here. Going “angry trees” and taking a lot of Verdant units looks ok, but not really what I am into, particularly for this tournament.
You were up against brutal lists in both these games - the AD list is all great in-meta units and the NA one feels like why 1000 point games get a bad rap, just three enormous units and token trash, perfect to dominate a smaller board. I also think Forest Shamblers are even worse than they were last edition, when they were bad but troops could at least work as thick chaff. Troops might be ok as unlockers but even then I’d rather take a Herd Warrior regiment for less
Cheers all the same for the reports, I’m basically learning the rules through battle reporters since my books still haven’t shipped
Yeah, Grant certainly came to play! He was somewhat known for mass Elohi in early 3rd. I thankfully didn’t play his Basilean list that day, but yeah, strong stuff. Great guy too, so it was a fun day.
The Forest Shamblers were a Core Tax route I was considering for the upcoming tournament, but no more. I complain about this in virtually every blog post about the Herd right now, but the Tribal Warriors are just killing me. From the new BRB: “The Herd knows all too well how the humble spear can destroy the momentum of an assult, and they use it themselves in defence and counter-attack.” …and all we get are basic Warriors. I’ve got three hordes of Tribal Spears just killing time right now. I could conceivably proxy them as normie Warriors, but I know I’d be getting attack numbers and rules wrong and that’s not even including opponents who might get confused. But yeah, Warriors look great.
Up now is the 4E debut for the Undead! I played a demo game as them (to victory!), but had yet to dig in with them. Overall, I am bullish on the army. While I have lost all my glorious Skeletons with two-handers, the Traits have been overhauled, and now Zombies and Skeletons all fall under one trait, making things a little more robust in the roster.
At the top, I will note that it was New Years Day, we still weren’t referencing a physical book, and were both jumping up to larger lists with new armies. It was a great way to spend the afternoon, but I made some pretty debilitating misreads… Keeping things pretty zoomed out:
I need to give the Balefire Catapults another test. With the real rules, this does seem like an ok approach, as the Undead could be surging things in after a volley with good positioning.
The new Withdraw move wasn’t utilized much, but it was front of mind for both of us. Lots of potential to interact with the move and neat to try and wrap our brains around.
Soul Reavers really failed me pretty hard. Looking at the report, it was mostly dice, but they are not the blenders they once were. Maybe two regiments with a Lord as Battalion #2? They have a role, but I don’t know if I would make them the core of my main line if my meta is going with more elite builds.
Real 180 on the quad catapults - I went from shock and awe to lamenting the rules kerfuffles that are absolutely going to be a thing for a while but still feel bad Your move holding the Hearthguard in place from the side (!) with the mounted Rev King was inspired, that’s the kind of 4E wtf move that I hope I can watch out for in games. Related, I’ve been happy to see individuals do cool stuff in the new edition, when they were quite pooped on as bad units with a bad rule that should never be taken except as a commander tax. But then the people saying this are the folks who spammed high value large infantry heroes and never took individuals in 3E
Speaking of things that people pooped on before release, I think the changes to Ice Elementals are great and really fitting. IMO they were already bad at fighting (the only elementals without pathfinder?? so they hit on 5+ many times anyway) and were very much a quasi-mobile shooting platform with a horrific gun. Well, that gun is better now! And you can’t disorder it! I honestly don’t know what to do into 2x regs of them this edition. Previously I could suicide chaff in to shut off the gun, now I have to hope I’m not devastated on the way in and they don’t have cool counter-charge friends (spoilers, NA totally do) …
And another unit that’s getting batted around, I’m here for the changes to Soul Reaver Infantry. CS2 should be rare (and is already present in the Undead list in several places), so internal balance is restored a bit but also the swap to vicious is not all downside. Behold, charts!
4E SRI are in fact better into De 3+ or 2+ compared to 3E, and not overly different into other targets. We know that people are hot for Zombie hordes, with De 3+ units theoretically looking to hit the table more since “shooting is bad now.”
If you’re a points-per-damage-caused person, we can also look at the efficiency of SRI across editions (where lower numbers are better). 4E SRI are, fittingly, more efficient into De 3+ or 2+, and virtually identical into De 4+ and 5+. It’s only into De 6+ that 3E pulls meaningfully ahead.
So! For core hammers, 4E SRI feel pretty amazing (and I think it would be disingenuous to consider the Vamp Lord that unlocks them a tax, as it’s one of the most relevant combat individuals I’m aware of). As a special choice? They do feel a bit like they did in late 3E. Undead have many hammers, and SRI are not overly appealing in comparison to the other non-core options. But I’m not sure that would be different if they had remained unchanged, crush- and points-wise.
I knew my Soul Reavers were under-performing most of the game, and writing up the report I realized that I had forgotten Vicious, but it’s wild to see that math. I guess I didn’t really appreciate just how much Vicious should be helping them out!
The Undead debut for 4e was a bit of a mess, as-covered. We’ll give the Soul Reavers another go for sure. Being able to move them to Core was certainly interesting, but my gut says they are probably going going to work better in Specialist, so they can more easily work alongside the Undead masses. Lots of neat Warlord choices to try out, and it is exciting to have so many things to not know and need to explore for the army.
It took a while to catch up on blog posts, but I got a pair of games in last weekend. Our club has a tournament coming up in early February! We were both a little worried about getting in any practice games at all, but we managed to squeeze in a pair of games last weekend to test out some possibilities for each of us, and see a little more of what can be done at 2300 points.
Despite the massive culling of the Herd roster, with my pet unit Guardian Brutes surviving the edition transition, albeit changed, I am committed to taking the Herd to the upcoming GT and their first-ever event! These lists were trying to explore a few possibilities for me, and see what my list limitations were, and just how much I could tweak over the next month.
I want to build with Specialist Guardian Brutes, which are “sidegrades” to Fire Elementals. I have three units, and want to run all three, so this is the biggest decision-point for the list, warping all the other choices for me.
The Chieftain is a required Warlord pick in order to run the Brutes, so he’s in, but has been working out well. The Herd have good command orders, so having a Warlord is nice, and he’s been doing well in his combats too.
I want two other Heroes around to Inspire and do stuff, so this is where most of the tweaking will happen over the next month. Running a Druid and a Centaur Chieftain currently.
I need Core, but have some old Longhorns which got a glow-up this edition. I will run at least two units of Longhorns, but might need to downgrade my third Core unit to Tribal Warriors, to free up points elsewhere.
I need chaff and Critters are all I’ve got. Fortunately, they have been doing ok for me. I think I need to take all three units I have, as delaying charges have been working out really well for me.
That leaves ~500 points to play around with, and a few empty support slots. The Herd getting more Elementals this edition is fun, and opens up a lot of gameplay and hobbying opportunities. Greater Water Elementals look awesome, though I have none. I hobbied up a pair of Greater Wind Elementals, but was feeling stretched a bit with wanting to including Surge, so I am going with Tree Herders, which seemed to do a lot in their game and fit really well.
The games were very enjoyable, and I had some powerful moves with solo charges and delaying chaff. I’ll try to mess around with heroes and spells over the next month.
I learned a lot in both games, and dice were dice in both, but the Halfling game is the one worth digging into more.
With 12” moves and a Wild Charge Aura, the Herd should be able to consistently threaten Round 2 charges unless the opponent is fleeing. I deployed a bit poorly here, and was not as aggressive as I should have been, especially against a shooting-heavy list.
Critters disappointed against shooting. They can provide cover to more important units, but if shot themselves, can’t scoot out of the way. Overall, using these to hold a few tokens might have been a better call.
Plenty of mistakes from me, but I am still learning and making progress. For the tournament, I am still debating Champion Choices though. Scorched Earth is appealing, but I’ve still yet to cast it! I’m not sure it works with the list, unless I fit in Amulet of the Fireheart for a BC/SE turn. The Centaur Chief also has uses, but I’ve been pretty hesitant to actually fight with him in his test games, so I haven’t gotten the best games out of him either.. Lists are due at the end of the month, so hopefully I can fit in a few more test games and figure out something I like.
Thanks for putting out reports so consistently, been a really great accompaniment to my morning coffee That Halfling game was the first time I’ve seen them in action in 4E, turns out there’s plenty of juice in the Halfling synergy vat (even if it’s almost all Brutal 2-3 flavored). Particularly interesting to see what Rob is up to with them, as he had honed his list down to a fine-tuned machine last edition.
I keep meaning to say that your critters are really adorable, and it’s been cool seeing you put them to (I would say) good use. I think they were actively bad for Herd last edition, because of their low speed and high cost … so it was weird to see people praising them early on, as they were functionally the same, just cheaper. I still think there’s plenty to like for that price (as you showed in this game, holding stuff up for very cheap), but yep, they’re still quite slow.
As for them being shot, I don’t think that’s a critter problem. You should probably assume that any true chaff piece is going to be wavered when exposed to shooting in this edition, as it’s more likely than being routed. I’ve always kept my chaff behind my (taller, wider) front line when advancing into shooting, then you shoot them forward when in charge-or-be-charged range, so you’re less likely to have them waver and gum up your lines. Yes, this is way easier when your chaff is faster than your mainline (I used centaur troops as chaff in 3E, obviously most Herd generals used harpies), but the concept holds well enough. Maybe the danger is when the opponent has both shooting AND fast combat troops, which (again) amplifies the downside of the critters Sp 6. Then you have to thread the needle of keeping them interposed between combat units and your dudes, while also not in a place where wavering ruins your own advance …
Hah! Oh man, such a neat setting. I played the heck out of the games be Paradox (?) about a decade back. Couldn’t ever get the buy-in from folks to play in-person. New Berlin is a suburb of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA. Not a bad place, but if you’re in the US right now, you probably have your hands full, and if you aren’t in the US… definitely do not visit right now.
For the Critters… yeah. If I had other options, I’d use them, but having lost both the Harpies and Panthers we are out of luck, and at least the price is better? Hopefully they get faster or we get some better options in the future. I think throwing them ahead of my lines was a mistake, and think the two general uses are:
Even and alongside things on the front line, to be able to charge ahead as well and limit was can get back into my charging units
As-suggested, behind my lines, and hopping out when the time is right to charge or block and interfere. The new line of sight rules are neat here, as if I offset them, they could potentially be charging out.
I think you only want them in front from the start against something with no shooting. One neat interaction I found though is that that have the “Verdant” trait, so the Tree Herders could actually Inspire them, and tossing them alongside the trees could be a good use for them in this list, depending on the table setup.
I’m gaming for some escapism, and should have some more games coming up soon.
What are you using for Critters? I need some for my elves and the bag of dragons I picked up at Hobby Lobby failed to meet my extremely low expectations.
But yeah, Warriors look great.
Definitely feels like a missing option, triply so knowing the lore 
Your move holding the Hearthguard in place from the side (!) with the mounted Rev King was inspired, that’s the kind of 4E wtf move that I hope I can watch out for in games. Related, I’ve been happy to see individuals do cool stuff in the new edition, when they were quite pooped on as bad units with a bad rule that should never be taken except as a commander tax. But then the people saying this are the folks who spammed high value large infantry heroes and never took individuals in 3E 
That Halfling game was the first time I’ve seen them in action in 4E, turns out there’s plenty of juice in the Halfling synergy vat (even if it’s almost all Brutal 2-3 flavored). Particularly interesting to see what Rob is up to with them, as he had honed his list down to a fine-tuned machine last edition.