You dont need any books though, just use Companion to build lists? My impression is that the books are mostly for customers who love the backstories.
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Not so, the new spells and units are only available if you have a premium account. So another subscription service. A good way to earn money for Mantic, but I’d rather have to rules on hand whenever I wish. I didn’t mind when it was just Clash of Kings once a year and the rule book. But playing multiple armies, I’d need at least three books. Sure the subscription is cheaper in the short term, but I’d rather not have to play them from my phone either. I’m just unhappy with what I’m seeing and I’m not the only one.
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The books are good for lore and art - but the rules aren’t stable enough to buy them for gaming with.
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If money is the issue then just subscribe for one month every 6 months (after updates) and print off all you need. Then unsubscribe. Personally I think the price of the companion is pretty competitive - if you just play KoW it’s not much over a year.
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That’s not very convenient.
And what happens if there is a change after you had a 1-month subscription?
Even if you do have the books you still need to pay for the Companion.
Sure, it’s much more convenient just to subscribe all year. Subscribing twice a year is a “hack”. With the 6 monthly updates I doubt there will be much change between books, and you’d probably hear about it if you’re actively playing with others. Subscribing is currently £4.50 a month I think, if you just want KoW. That doesn’t seem a huge amount to pay for unlimited list building and updates to rules, especially for a hobby where that barely buys you more than 3 small models. Not saying it’s perfect (updates could be quicker and there have been issues here and there) but it feels like a reasonable price to me.
I get wanting to own something and not pay a subscription, but given the balancing and other tinkering required to a complex ruleset I’m not sure that’s possible. They could make the rules free for everyone, but clearly they must feel that would miss some revenue overall. If I were in charge I would perhaps make the builder free to encourage growth of the game (this is done periodically with the sci-fi games), but then I don’t know the margins etc that they’re working on to make an informed choice from a company perspective.
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So out of interest, how does the rules availability for KoW compare to other tabletop games?
We all know that GW/Warhammer is the most expensive to get the rules by far, so let’s just ignore them for now. But what about the others? Conquest? Infinity? Bolt Action? Warmachine?
The only other game I’m familiar with at the moment is Malifaux. They have books you can buy but also an app and all the rules/stat cards are free. So as long as you’re willing to use the App, the price of entry (just for rules & stats) is zero. Updates are also semi-regular (once or twice per year?).
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Good question. I’d like to know this too
Edit: a quick search and I think infinity rules are free as a pdf, no official app that I could see.
Warlord games have a bolt action app that is £1.99 per month
Another edit: looks like conquest is free as far as I can see
One more edit: looks like warmachine is free too
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I’ve got the Warlord app, which covers Bolt Action, Konflict 47, Blood Red Skies, and Black Seas. That’s I think £2 a month.
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From my searches (see edits to post above), mantic are more expensive than the competition who are mainly free.
Everyone’s mileage will vary of course. I play all Mantic games and the companion is amazing for me. Having al the rules and army building available is great. I like having the books to read through,
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I agree. For me, as an early subscriber who also has the vault it is good value. I do wonder if making all the keywords etc and full rules available for free might be a good option for people less like me though.
As I say, I don’t know the financial side, so it’s hard to judge.
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GW is different as while expensive for rules it is also mostly free because people put up rules online or create Apps with the full rules so that you don’t need to buy anything (they tolerate this because keeping people within the bubble and a large playerbase is more important) so people always compare to the free rules from GW from 3rd party sources (KoW you need to pay for rules and list builder, The Old World you get both for free) and tolerate bad writing more because they didn’t pay for it.
Warlord Games uses an App with monthly subscription (2 GBP)
Infinity, ASoIaF, Warmachine and Conquest have full rules as free pdf.
The comparison is also with Mantic other games that have the rules for free in the Companion, with Halo having most of them for free, while KoW only has the free starter booklet pdf at the moment.
Different approach for different Mantic games for reasons (understandable to a point) but also a lot of people expected it to be the same for all games and just paying for quality of life features when forced to use an online connection (while for very new players or the younger generation, not having an App in the App-Stores makes this basically invisible for them so paying for a feature outside the app stores adds isn’t seen
One bigger point of complaints I come along is also that people expect something if they need to pay for it and it doesn’t matter how much it is.
And currently the KoW side has some minor issues (formatting, output) that people expect not to be there for a fully paid service
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Good points well made.
I am happy enough with what I pay for what I get, BUT, I do think mantic could do much better with regards the app etc.
The length of time it takes for updates (especially sci-fi) to come through is baffling. If the app is well written then it shouldn’t take long to update things and shouldn’t require any coding knowledge to do so.
It seems that a lack of free full rules is stymying growth of the game in general as well, which is a concern.
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For me, the price I pay annually for the Mantic companion is an absolute pittance compared to the mandatory miniatures of other army-scale mini-wargames. Many of those games with free (app- or piracy-based) rules also virtually or literally require you to use their models, which are often some of the most expensive on the market (Warmachine and the Warhammers come to mind, both rules access and purchasing-wise; Malifaux and Infinity seem to be quasi-affordable these days (and are smaller scale skirmish games anyway), and I don’t know enough about ASOIAF or Conquest to weigh in).
Also IMO physical game books are collector’s items first, lore / art repositories second, and rules documents last.
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The Old World are 3 books plus eventually Cathay.
Non-English versions of additional rules are for free. They are just available as PDF and don’t include background, but I don’t mind. And of course you can use any miniatures you want. I play ToW with miniatures from different companies.
A Song of Ice and Fire has not only a free app including rules and armylist building - it works even offline!
Have read in the fracture book, and found the mention of hobgoblins, working for the Abyssal Dwarfs. A hint of a shift towards more chaos dwarfs maybe? Replacement of the orcslaves, since the orcs are more focused on the riftforged.
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Hobgoblins could be very interesting. In the lore mentioned they are working directly for the wicked ones. I’m not sure if they will come into the abyssal dwarf list or not but it’s certainly a possibility. I can’t think where else they may fit. I doubt slave orcs will disappear entirely, nor will ratkin slaves either I don’t think. Maybe they’ll come into abyss later? It’s been said a few times that just because it’s 4 armies are covered in detail it doesn’t mean that others won’t get stuff occasionally
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They seem to tinker around or at least use mighty machines, enable them to enter the Void (first story in the book).
But does the game need 3 kinds of Greenskins? Or more precise 4, because Riftforge Orcs are another creation of gods, or shining ones, or whatsoever (too many names and groups, I can’t tell you who did what).
I would rather like to see more races, fractions from the Xirkaali area.
I would really prefer existing armies to be finished before they add more, please.
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