Sylvan Kin in 2025

[Findol]

2024 in Review
So CoK 24 saw Sylvan Kin lose a few options, most notably the strength of the Greater Air Elemental that was propping the faction up through 2023. However, what we gained was the ability to combine the Wanderer King with the bow option from Elves which created a hero option that was so strong it felt like it had just been overlooked. When given items such as the Gnome-glass shield, Axe of the Giant Slayer, or Scythe of the Reaper these individuals got pumped up to exceptional levels and could output comparable damage to mainline shooting units while being very flexible and difficult to remove.
We also got access to the Quicksilver Lancers who helped to alleviate the loss of the GAE hammers in our inventory.
These units helped to solidify the top end Sylvan Kin meta for the year. A few notable people still placed very well with lists that featured very heavy shooting coupled with some mobile hammers but Sylvan Kin (who haven’t shown up in huge numbers at the best of times) dropped off the map in most major tournaments.

The Shiny (so far)
Greater Air Elementals go back to 9 attacks which is big for us. We don’t have access to the Brutal Aura or super efficient surging like Forces of Nature so we need to make the most of the flanks that we invest in with the GAE. We’ll probably see them hit the table again which might help the Forest Warden see play a little bit more.

Stormwind going regular is big for us. While I think many people are still going to be rocking a few units of Gladestalkers as a shooting base, Stormwind are a fantastic unit to build an army around. If what I have heard is true, getting multiple units of Quicksilver Lancers that can take our Pathfinder upgrade will gift us an unlocking Spd9 hammer that’s 15/17, pathfinder, and nimble.

Boskwraiths are also supposed to drop in points which is great but it remains to be seen how that will affect list building. With me4 (elite) and no native crushing they aren’t your typical hammer even with 25 attacks. They’re great for clearing our hordes of def4 infantry but Gladestalkers and Hunters of the Wild are already great go-tos for those foes and they do it more effectively or cheaper.

If we keep access to the Hunting Cat Duelist upgrade, Wanderer Kings and Kings on horse look a bit scarier as they can take items on top of the now 3x attack duelist. H3 Kings with Shardblade and the cat will be hard to hide from and will be looking to make very consistent, reliable mincemeat out of key enemy individuals.

Indirect Shiny–>> New Progressive Scoring Scenarios
There are a few new scenarios being introduced that involve progressive scoring which is really our tree-friends’ time to shine. Scout has always felt a little overcosted leading to units such as Forest Shambler hordes feeling a bit underwhelming for their price. This where those beefy, speed 6 scouters are going to make their money back as they will start the game where they need to be, control the zones effectively, and have the bulk to stick around as an anvil and offer juicy flanks for the Greater Airs and Quicksilver Lancers.

Some speculation about Commands
I think it’s unlikely that we’ll get access to the Command that removes Shambling for a turn but if we do then we could see Hordes of Air Elementals again launching up the flanks and turning in as they really, really want to do with their Spd 10 nimbleness. This would also free up Greater Airs to launch into backlines with a lot less setup.

The Not-So-Shiny
We’re losing the Wanderer BowKing. It was so good when it dropped that I thought it must have been a mistake. A 1 Def penalty for 7 ranged elite attacks on 4s with an option to bump it to 7+d3 with Rampage or Slayer. Maybe you just sit with the 7 attacks and take the Gnomeglass shield for a cheeky def6 speed 7 individual that can pepper whoever they want to and then sit down any flying horde that happens to want to eat your Gladestalkers. I’ve refrained so far from taking this tone but if this unit was this broken but wasn’t a shooty elf I bet we would have seen it stick around for another year before it got removed entirely. Maybe just a points increase or something but people really hate shooting units that are overtuned.

With the return of the GAE, Nimue comes back into the fold as a key Surge-caster. With the change to Duelist I think that there are going to be a lot more assassin-style characters out there who are looking for high-value targets just like her and it will be a lot more challenging to pop up into good spots looking for Cloak of Death, Surge shenanigans, and juicy Fireball targets. This makes Archmages a lot more enticing as they can take the Crown and Surge from 18" of safety.

The Meta
I am excited for what this year will look like for the Sylvan Kin. I think we are an army that is pretty dear to people’s hearts and we may see a bunch of folks come out of the woodworks (ha) that we didn’t see in 2024.
I think Dwarves and Forces of the Abyss will be a big problem this year. Dwarves were considered very strong last year and have only gotten better with CoK25. Ordered March and new command orders are giving Factions more mobility options than ever and Dwarves and Abyss will benefit greatly from an increased ability to screen their units, recover from shooting, and get into advantageous positions that they weren’t able to get into before. While we brought a couple of can-openers back into the fold this year, I don’t know if that it will be enough to get through the meat/regen/def6 walls that this years scenarios are going to encourage.

Looking forward to hearing others’ thoughts in here as we get more info and looking forward to lots of Kings in 2025!

[Fugue]

Hello there

• I’ve wanted Stormwind to unlock for the longest time and it’s finally happened. This will certainly give us many more builds to tinker with and we can only go up from here. Taking both the Pathfinder upgrade and Quicksilver Lancers will be pricey but I can see many players going that route, even adding on the new and improved Blood of the Old King upgrade as well (and maybe Brew of Strength on a second regiment or a even a Bane Chanter nearby).

This edition will see a rise in alpha strike lists.
I’ve commented elsewhere that Trident Realm dambusters are now CS 2 TC 1 which gives my main army its first ever actual hammer. They gain vicious from an aura and rally 2 from the Trident King’s own aura so I expect them to be a popular choice. The more armies I look at with powerful cavalry, the more I feel we will see infantry taking a step back from the tabletop.

-Madriga gaining inspiring means that she might be a sleeper hit with her Trickshot ability being something of a remedy against alpha cav units though not that much

-Boskwraiths taking a big point reduction means the formation will be more popular now especially with the new scenario. Our army is expensive as it is so I’m putting stock in them for the time being, their cheaper cost might be important for overall list construction.

-Green Lady- what’s the change in RoL again? I can see her flying alongside a couple Stormwind units.

Also, Fire Oil will make a comeback due to the new Abyssals.

[Sceleris]

The RoL change is simply in the wording, with the addition of a potential keyword restriction (but as yet i haven’t heard anything specifically being given one).

Hope they have sorted the kings cat issue (since it shouldn’t have one) and having seen how vile the shooting wanderers were no real surprise they got hit.

Nimble pathfinder cav, gladestalkers and scouting forest shamblers look a solid basis for a list

[Findol]

That’s a good point about Madriga. That Pierce 2 shot is pretty great and her points mean that you’ll probably see 50/50 her or the Master Hunter whether you’re willing to trade 1def for 1 Pierce. With the Scythe or the Axe a Hunter has pretty similar expected damage output but then essentially pays 10 pts to be Def4.

[Findol]

I guess they felt like the wording of RoL was at odds with the few restrictive Radiances that were out there? Off the top of my head there’s a Dwarf only and Frostbound only RoL. Most armies pay such a premium for it that I haven’t felt that it was terribly common and/or a problematic ability that it needed further restrictions.

[Sceleris]

Yeah, just tidying up how any restrictions actually worked, rather than (i gather) looking to impose more

[Fugue]

–Wanderer King with Shard blade and Duelist. Speed 7 character killer

–This might be a stretch but perhaps Barkskin and Scorched Earth will be viable for Kin against these alpha lists?

–Speaking of anti-cav…phalanx…? I know I’m scraping the bottom of the barrel here for ideas but I can see other armies going this route if not us. Our spears aren’t spectacular but maybe…maybe…maybe…taking some with a BSB with rampage aura and Lute might be useful…?

[Sceleris]

The elf spearmen are perfectly good units and a horde is a very viable central unit to have.

Issue with the shardblade wanderer is actually being able to see what it wants to kill, whereas the mounted king has the height advantage.

Both spells may see more traction, but both can be tricky to pull off effectively as oppo can potentially just do something different for a turn?

[Findol]

I think you’re right about the mounted king there. Pretty tough to hide from a SPD 9, H3, nimble character.

A horde of TallSpears would look pretty good here as well. Combo’d with the Awakened Guardians for Rally and the Chalice you’ve got a 22/24 Fury Phalanx unit with 30 attacks. Expensive anvil but those two units would take up a lot of board space.

[Fugue]

How often do SK take spears? I don’t think I’ve seen them in a tournament list. The problem with most phalanx units has been the fact that cav can just outmaneuver them. With the onset of this new meta, we may see enough targets for our spears now for them to be more viable.

A mounted king is great but a wanderer is also viable. With only CS1, having 21 swings vs 15 will be helpful against high defense targets. Wanderers also have pathfinder.

If an enemy unit doesn’t charge your barkskin target then sic the gladestalkers/silverbreeze on them. Set your barkskin unit up to be the only potential charge target.

[Findol]

I think that you’re right about the spears. Even with the price drop last year we hardly saw them. I’ve always found Hunters of the Wild to be a more versatile mainline unit. With the Spears at Def4, regiments are still wavering on decent odds even against single charges of their ideal targets (flying hordes, cav regiments). Spear hordes are nice if you can control some ground without worrying about shooting but are very matchup dependent. Any 14"+ shooting just eats them alive. Their lousy damage output also makes them worthless to invest in defending (veil, barksin, etc.).

Wanderers are really great in many respects. I’ve typically run one in every list.

So our Faction Commands are identical to the Elf ones. +6" shooting and Ordered March for Infantry, Heavy Infantry, and Cav.
+6" shooting will be great for Silverbreeze. Archers would theoretically like it as it would allow them Turn 1 (or other) shots without taking move penalties but their expected damage is still so low that it would not be worth investing in unless you had literally no other Command targets.

Ordered March will be really nice for our Nimble Cav as this would allow them to reposition to extreme degrees. Adding the Wine onto units like Boskwraiths would also be nice as it would allow them to work their way into more advantageous positions and stay optimally hidden.
Maybe we will also see more elf hordes as well.

Some of the basic Orders are really nice for us as well. +6" range on surge helps to keep our Mages or Forest Wardens safe and adding an extra spell dice makes casting Bane Chant (2) or Surge (4) a bit more reliable. Having really high base speed on our units also makes the sidestep order exceptional as units can shuffle sideways at hyperspeed to shore up gaps in lines, sidle into more advantageous terrain, or present themselves as more ideal threats for the coming turn.

[Rune]

These changes probably will make me want to have a new look at Sylvan Kin again. I have not yet seen the changes, but what I’m reading gives a bit of hope. I do understand some specific builds have been very successful recently, and a trio of treemen is of course always dirty (who doesn’t love dirty?), but the versatility of different builds has been lacking. Sylvan Kin is not in such a bad spot as the Herd has been, granted, but maybe the small changes here and there will open up competition within the army.

The Boskwraiths have been woefully under powered for their cost (and the cost change was definitely the way to go instead of upping their strength). The adjustment on the Wanderer Kings is probably overdue - it’s great to have something unique, but internal balance suffers with such obvious power houses.

The biggest thing is probably the insane increases of viability of the cavalry. People have been asking for that. I can’t see why not. Now the Sylvan Kin heavy cavalry is a very unique piece of specialised knights that is very befitting of the Sylvan Kin elite identity. The question is if I’ll now have to get myself another unit of them… We’re playing 1995 at the moment. Will there be enough points in the list available for two units - will you need two in less than 2300 points? Unlocking definitely helps the unit find places in lists a LOT.

What I’m really mostly interested in is scenarios, of course, but what kinds of different play patterns the Command dice will enable. Surely, investing in more heroes (which are not scoring mostly in SK) and putting points in more command dice will not help SK as an elite army in bringing more units to the board, further setting them in as a glass hammer that really cannot make mistakes or take a charge (polarising game results, maybe?), but whatever they’ll bring to the table is interesting to me.

I’m not sure if Sylvan Kin will be a go-to for me coming next year, since I have those models serve multi-purpose between Herd, Sylvan Kin and Varangur, out of which Varangrrr has definitely been the most interesting and diverse for list-building, but I’ll definitely take a look at it again. Herd is unfortunately a no-go for me, most likely, until the whole army and Nature-based lists get revised altogether (4th Edition, I’m looking at you), but SK just might get a few new games in for me coming year with these changes.

[Sceleris]

Unlocking cavalry will definitely alter some list building, especially depending exactly on how the nimble/pathfinder options stack up.

HotW get referenced as possibly popular, but don’t think I’ve come across many?

Boskwriaths needed some love to help with a build that isn’t ‘4 turns of shooting and then hit with cavalry’.

New scenarios mix things up a bit , where you might need more solid units in lists.

[Findol]

My experience with Hunters of the Wild has been mixed. At 140 pts their stats are pure value town with 15 m3 attacks, def5, scout and Pathfinder. They are a serviceable unlock mainline unit that carries tokens reasonably well, takes up space, and provides some solid output against softer targets.

The problem is that they are not sturdy enough to be a true anvil but with no native CS they aren’t a hammer either. They waver like crazy at 14/16. In the list they end up serving as budget Shambler hordes if you don’t have the points but still need the unlock that a Shambler regiment doesn’t provide.

At SPD 5 they also get left behind the Wiltfather and Shamblers that they want to be tag teaming with to be around terrain and benefit from the Vicious aura.

[Rune]

Isn’t this exactly the problem with medium infantry as a whole though? Anything of the “Foot Guard” disposition suffers from the facts that they are slow, don’t usually have noticeably better survivability than 75pts trash regiments and cannot reliably rout one either in a reasonable time to make a difference. These are problems with the whole unit archetype as a whole. So for your infantry regiments you either go Goblins or Hearth guard.

The scout and pathfinder are definitely the selling points of a 140 infantry regiment, and as such I would probably be glad to take them over Foot Guard regiments. But if there’s anything at all that serves a purpose - any purpose - within the price point, I would usually rather be taking those instead.

For objective holding they are pretty premium, granted. A dead opponent after you’ve alphaed them with a hammer, arguably, serves the same purpose.

I wouldnt suggest really buffs for Hunters though, not the medium infantry archetype. I would rather see the system revamped a bit, which I could see happening by 4th edition in a year.

[Sceleris]

Yeah - middle of the road infantry is generally awful when compared to cr*p or elite options - unless they have something else going for them (dogs, spears etc).

I do not think I’ve ever seen a unit of elf/sk kindred warriors on the table and despite 25k+ points of KoM I’ve probably got 2 regiments if shieldwall?

Gather from Countercharge pod that in the new FoA list Abyssal ghouls are removed, but lower abyssals get a bit cheaper.

[Findol]

I think I’ve made one or two lists with Kindred Warriors in them because I didn’t have 20pts for Hunters but those lists never saw the table!

With only 13ish drops you need every unit to pull their weight and those cheap infantry units just don’t cut the mustard. They suck too much to be of much use and are still too expensive to be throw away units.

[Waraldir]

With those changes i am finally going back to SK again. It gives me some possibilties now, that werent there before.