this time starting early to get actually prepared and have some proper games with the army
possible options:
Brothermark (what a stupid idea of taking the same army twice, specially as it is a non Mantic Army and I might get good with it)
Elves (Mantic Army that wants to be painted)
Ogres (another Mantic Army that wants to be painted, though I don’t have an idea for an exotic theme yet)
Forces of the Abyss (hand sculpted daemonic army, so very flexible on what units to use)
current favourite are the Elves with a Southern Kin/desert theme and less/no Dragons, (the models, not the units, using the Ravens instead of Drakons for Regiment/Hordes is an option, as is going with Sylvan Kin) and a focus on Elves
the only thing that might be a problem is that I have the Vanguard Lizard (that one) with an Elven rider , which I would like to use but not sure for what (Noble on Chariot is an option with the standard Elve list but not sure for Sylvan Kin)
Ogres, as I don’t have a theme yet that is not common and many people are going with them are last place
Brothermark is the “learn to play” faction and always Plan B anyway
and Forces of the Abyss would be "how to get that one counted as a “Mantic” army challenge
you know, this time I somehow don’t want to do last minute painting
Two Lists, one for Elves, one for Sylvan Kin
Elves have the Drakons, Sylvan Kin the Air Elementals, the other units are more or less the same though the Air Elemental might fit better with a desert theme (sand storm)
yes and no
in general I agree as some points changes and formation changes will have an impact
overall the armies should stay the same and I will definitely go with an infantry theme so changes won’t really change my choices in general as the core will stay the same (as it will if I switch between Elves and Sylvan Kin, just the support will be different)
Last Clash of Kings was an eye-opener for me that alpha-strike armies are possible again (look atJonathan Quayle’s Basileans for instance) and that 4+ steady-aim shooting was not as painful as I’d seen in the Dutch scene.
As for next Clash of Kings installment, I’m curious where -if any- changes will apply.
Very much a case (i gather) of underused units getting a buff - so for elves/SK possibly things like kindred warriors (ever seen them used???), shieldwatch, boskwraiths etc getting a bit of love.
putting that here so I don’t forget it (and to get some additional ideas)
trying to make a full mantic army, most units can be made from the available kits
like the 3 guard units are the 3 build variations of the Palace Guard (with two-handed weapons, with halberd, with shield), Seaguard is mixing Tallspears with Archers etc.
units that are not there are Hunters of the Wild and Boskwraiths, and while the later could be made from Gladestalkers by using the 2 hand weapons only the Hunters of the Wild as heavy infantry are clearly meant to be a non-Elve unit
as the overall theme should be Southern Kin I hesitate but in general using the half-elf berserkers as base (with shields instead of 2 weapons for Def 5) would be a good option
sing the upcoming TK Corsairs as Boskwraiths is possible but the size difference to the regular Elfs might be a problem (using the half-elf berserker is out as having a Def 5 and a Def 3 unit using the same models will cause problems)
in addition, Air Elementals will rather be Sand Elementals and I am thinking about using the Ravens as Drakons (and replacing the leather wings with feather wings for the lord on drakon model (making it a dragon-raven hybrid)
After some testing games and building models, the list is almost set.
Going with Elves as the units for that list were easier to build but with some changes
the question remaining now is the heroes setup especially to go with either a 2nd Wizard with Veil of Shadows (and either Hex or Heal) or a Noble Chariot
both have their advantages Veil of Shadows helps a lot against shooty armies and might make a difference in avoiding losing units early
while the Chariot can act as distracting and/or support for the offensive units while bringing 1 more fast Unit Strength to the table
does anyone have any experience with the noble chariot?
Using the old topic for upcoming 2025 tournament because similar questions are there again.
Originally I planned to go with Ogres as the army was build but missing 2 units I wanted to take from the Champions boxes.
As life goes I decided to go with the German boxes to support translations the Ogres won’t be available until after the event.
So it was Abyss, yet Steve torpedoed my plans by changing the goodies from Titans to Ambush boxes, which planned to get go build that Army, so saving money and making this next years project
So Brothermark or Elves it is but as my dog had some fun with one of my Knight Regiments, Elves are in favour.
Which brings us to the lists, this one was played last year:
So far so good yet I felt that I need a 2nd Mage to support the units that are there over an additional fighting hero though the additional US and speed was nice.
Which would be this as base for further “tinkering”:
Shifting points around, focus on what there is and going with a true anvil as I saw in my games that I tend to use the palace guard as such instead of playing them aggressively
But of course once the mind accepts that there are 2 Hordes, also this variant is tempting (slightly higher average defence and a slight advantage in nerv and shooting):
of course there is also the traditional Elves list including Gladestalkers instead of Palace Guard if I want to go heavy into shooting but in this case I don’t see this really fitting my style
Yet once I start questioning the core infantry this would also make Drakons an option to put more speed and melee power on the table, which opens a full new can of worms of possible lists (with the only hurdle being the Drakons arriving on time)
So here we are, what started as small adjustments resulted in me being clueless what to take as all options have their advantage and disadvantage and I don’t have enough time to test them all
I’m still trying to narrow down which faction I’m taking, let alone anything as finessed as deciding on what to bring once that decision gets made!
From your variety of lists, like the 2PG reg, SG horde, 2 dragon breath one - although would try to get a mount for one of the mages (drakons & stormwind hit hard on the charge, but struggle afterwards).
Way too much preparation for the event already given the place I expect and that winning isn’t the reason I go there (but not going with a new army so at least a new list )
I also like that list the most for now but adding the mount is tricky as squeezing the extra 25 points for 3" more range and 1 point in height isn’t easy
Thu Periscope or Wizard Crown might be an option to get at least either height 3 or more range for BaneChant
Probably my choice as well, with a +1 to the wizard hat for one of the mages over fire oil + reroll stick. The hammer horde and heal (8) is a close second but the PG regs win me over compared to the TSG regs.
Artifacts are a interesting point for this kind of lists in general
Elves miss the Monsters to make good use of the Horde unlocks, so with all the units there are 80 points left, which would be enough for a single swarm of cats, while for anything else there are not enough unlocks (unless the Silverbreeze Cavalry is replaced with Gladestalkers as they come in with 5 points more, options at 75 points are questionable at best compared to artifacts)
There are some good and some essential upgrades, Blade of the Beast Slayer for a dedicated monster hunter, Crown of the Wizard King for more range on BaneChant/Heal and Fire Oil which is very situational but also the only way to get Piercing on the Horde, and that can make the difference in taking out a unit…
Jesses Boots, Brew of Strength and Conjurer Staff are also of good use to make the Hammers not only hit harder but hit more reliable.
Last one would be Pipes of Terror which helps specially on the low attack heroes, Orb of Towering Presence to get more US and the other 5 point items which can all help here as does Helm of the Drunken Ram as cheaper option to hit harder.
Overall, Brew of Strength in the Calvary and Jesses Boots on the Drakons are set so both have CS1 in case of being disordered and the Drakons can go thru terrain (and Wine of Elven kind is too expensive here)
Conjurers Staff is nice to make BaneChant 2 more reliable with the Horde either getting Fire Oil or Hammer of measured Force depending on what the Drakon rider gets.
Blade of the Beast Slayer on 5 Attacks might be wasted and Drunken Ram or Pipes of Terror a cheaper and more universal option (as are the 5 point items as a single re-roll or healing brew might help more)
For the 2nd Mage I struggle between Periscope and Crown, better line of sight vs more range are both situational but the difference on points put an edge on the Periscope
Yeah, Data & Dice have done various bits of number crunching - both generally about how much is used and then what gets taken.
It can be a tricky issue when you might not be able to squeeze another unit it, so then looking at enlarging unit/upgrades/items to fill the hole becomes necessary (unless you then start rebuilding the army from the beginning).
Artifacts wise, US Masters was very much either go big or go home. Make your heavy hitters really hit with pricy stuff, or (barring fire oil, periscope and a few others) don’t bother.
At least the good players come to similar conclusions as I did
Overall I just struggle with the TSG Horde item as Hammer of Measured Force or Fire Oil are both situational but good to have if it happens.
And this leaves either 15 or 30 points for the remaining units and I would like to take Conjurer’s Staff for a save Bane Chant leaving either 5 or 20 points.
Thunderous helm on the drakon lord is cool, grinding is probably not what that dude wants. I probably rate the pipes higher if you need 5 points somewhere.
Speaking of 5 points, I’m wondering who the periscope is there to support. King’s champ maybe? A palace guard unit that got spicy and charged away from the sea guard-anchored line (but is still within 12" of the mage nestled behind the TSG / other PG)? The wizard crown was clearly to support the fast hammers, but they’re H3-4 so the periscope isn’t for them. In the end, it’s a big shrug from me. The reroll staff should stay on that other mage for sure, and I think I’d prefer to have fire oil on the TSG than dump it to pay for wizard crown on the other mage (assuming pipes of terror swap). If the pipes are swapped in, could give that mage piercing arrow for slightly spicier lightning
Periscope is 5 points just in case one of the units ends up in a wired spot blocking LOS.
Piercing Arrow and Pipes would be a good idea as well, haven’t thought about pushing the damage on the mages but rather making BC better and in general Arrow and Pipes is the a more consistent option.
