Hi,
I got lost in the rules and need some help clarifying.
Can you charge and cast host shadow beast on yourself ?
An rift force orc player that had the special rule, arcane smitty. saying it could charge and cast host shadow beast on himself.
Does this mean that other spellcaster cant charge and cast host shadow beast on themselves?
It wasn’t importent in this game, but i play trident realms and used host shadowbeast on a mystic with gnome glass shield.
Thanks in advance
no it’s specifically for the Rift forged Orcs with Arcane Smithy, as per the rules
“This unit may cast their Bane Chant or Host Shadow Beast spell while engaged with an enemy unit, even if the Riftforger was issued a Charge order this turn.”
you can cast host shadowbeast if you’re engaged in combat, but not if you were issued a charge order that turn, which means being in a combat and not having been disordered the previous turn
… because you can’t cast spells (i.e. shoot) when you charge, right? The spell does say both Self and CC are valid targets otherwise.
I swear, 90% or more of the shadowbeasts I’ve been on the receiving end of have been vampires or cursed pharaohs hosting themselves on the charge 
Host Shadowbeast:
“Friendly Individuals or Self (individuals only), CC”
About self: “Such spells can only target the spellcaster itself if ‘Self’ is listed in in the Targets section of the spell’s profile.”
About CC: “Like other ranged attacks, most spells are not allowed to target units that are in Melee combat or Engaged. Spells that have ‘CC’ in the Targets section of their profile, meaning Combat Casting, are exceptions. They may target units in Melee or who are Engaged.”
“A spellcaster may cast host shadowbeast onto themselves and can do so even when engaged with an enemy unit. Multiple castings on the same target have no additional effect.”
I can’t see any particular allowances for Riftforged Orcs, so I think it works the same way for everyone 
I assume being Disordered will stop any castings of Host Shadowbeast, as the spell doesnt list any exceptions for that rule.
I quoted it above, Arcane Smithy allow’s them to cast host shadowbeast on the charge, it’s specifically worded that way
Oh, you mean all other casters suffer under this general rule:
“Units that are Engaged with enemies cannot use, or be targeted by, ranged attacks, unless specified otherwise.”
and only the Riftforger is the exception?
I can’t see any rule disallowing charging and casting, only Moving At The Double and casting.
the way I read it is the riftforger gets to cast on the charge, otherwise there is the exception to cast on themselves if engaged and not disordered.
No, I think you are wrong, all casters can cast Host Shadowbeast on themselves.
The Arcane Smithy rule allows them to also cast bane chant while engaged, plus host shadowbeast/bane chant on OTHER targets even though they are in melee, that is the rule that is allowed to be broken.
But: the fact that the rule mentiones “charging” is confusing because it implies normally you cannot cast spells after charging, but I can not actually find any rules about this.
I started doubting myself now, lol. This is getting complicated.
interesting maybe it’s a hold over from previous editions and games on my behalf, it does change magic totally now, I’ve never thought about charging in ogres and casting drainlife first, or with the periscope you could charge and surge something in from the other side.
It’s a brave new magical world ^^
Wow! So you can charge a Chroneas in, drain life its charge target (or somebody behind the target because tall), then fight in melee?? Suddenly that upgrade actually seems worth it rather than never being cast.
Or is it like this?
I have broken the basic rule into 2 parts. (1: Use and 2: Be targeted)
All spells with “CC” only open for allowance no 2: be targeted.
But only Host Shadowbeast seem to open for no 1: Use.
“Units that are Engaged with enemies cannot (1) use, or (2) be targeted by, ranged attacks, unless specified otherwise.”
“Like other ranged attacks, most spells are not allowed to (2) target units that are in Melee combat or Engaged. Spells that have ‘CC’ in the Targets section of their profile, meaning Combat Casting, are exceptions. They may (2) target units in Melee or who are Engaged.”
“A spellcaster may (1) cast host shadowbeast onto themselves and can do so even when (2) engaged with an enemy unit.”
(all uses of (1) and (2) are obviously not part of the original quote)
this would not work, as drain life does not allow for 1) use spells despite being engaged.
If I break down the riftforger rule the same way:
"Arcane Smithy
This unit may (1) cast their Bane Chant or Host Shadow Beast spell while engaged with an enemy unit, even if the Riftforger was issued a Charge order this turn. If they do so, they may only (2) target Friendly Core units engaged with the same enemy as themselves, regardless of Line of Sight. The Riftforger itself is also a valid (2) target for either spell when cast in this way."
So it gives a limited (1) allowance to Bane Chant (not to cast on anyone, but on himself or friendlies in the same melee as themselves) as well as the normal (1) allowance to use Host Shadowbeast.
Unresolved: why it says “even if the Riftforger was issued a Charge order this turn” - as I can not find this in the rules.
I think I have found it, Magic is a ranged attack so we need to start at Ranged not the magic section, in there…
Units that are only Engaged with enemy units that are Yielding do not have to disengage in order to shoot.
So maybe it’s for the edge cases where you’re engaged with yielding units then you can host on yourself and pound face?
I have never heard yielding being used as a reason to cast it, so while it may be an additional situation I dont think it cuts to the core of the matter.
I see, being engaged is the sticking point here, not charging, when it comes to ‘shooting’ a spell. And it’s the text of Host Shadowbeast itself that provides the relevant exception (shooting while engaging), not spell target (Enemy, CC).
it’s intriguing isn’t it, because based on the current reading, you can cast at targets that aren’t in combat while the caster themselves are in combat, charge a chaff unit and windblast the unit behind it, Windblast isn’t targeting a unit that is engaged, even though the caster is.
So as long as you can see the target, they’re fair game.
**EDIT
actually checking the shooting rules again it says they specifically have to disengage unless the aforementioned yielding. So now I’m just baffled
So because of (1), no wind blasting after charging something.
Even before you continue to the disengaging and yielding part.
If you move backwards, for instance, out of melee, you can shoot again, BUT if you were damaged (ie Disordered) during the enemy turn, that ability to shoot goes away again after all.
so we’re back where we started then, that the Riftforger has a unique spell rule that either does nothing, or is poorly worded.
Until such times someone stops me I shall be charging warlocks and drainlifing away before punching face