Nimble and Wavered in 3rd ed

Hi there,
A situation occured regarding my Tundra wolves being wavered. However, the unit is Nimble. As they are nimble, the nimble rule says they get an extra pivot. (as long as the unit they are engaged in does not have Entangle or Phalanx, which in this case was not so. Therefore, i disengaged, pivoted using my nimble free pivot, and then backed off 4.5" , half of their 9" movement. In theory, this would have allowed another unit access to charge, but the unit behind them was a horde of Naiads and couldnt fit due to terrain limitations. Such is life. But was it possible to use nimble while wavered. i couldnt find anything that said i couldnt.
I checked the rules and FAQs but cannot see any reason why they can’t . Did i miss something? Thanks in advance

That’s fine.

Nimble is lost if disordered in melee by a unit with phalanx/ensnare or where a unit has both fly & nimble and is disordered (by any unit)

many thanks

Yes, nimble units can pivot during a backward move (being wavered doesn’t affect that).

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Cool thanks Fred.

I agree with others that you can pivot during the backward move but I am not sure if you could manage to stay 1" away from the enemy unit the wolves disanagaged. Sure, the wolves can move back a bit to gain space for the pivot but from what you wrote it looks they pivoted immediately after disangagement (at the start of the backward move). Certainly, in some specific situations it works this way too but in common situations the nearby enemy unit is too close to pivot immediately.

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Yes, but remember to stay outside 1" after disengaging.

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Very valid point @AlQuds +@DarkBlack.
in this particular case i managed it… just by a whisker. i think…
The regiment of Tundra wolves is 100*125mm and were facing a chariot type model.
The disengage moved them back 1" (25.6mmapprox) so after the pivot 90 degrees they end up 0.6mm away from the model that was in contact before disengaging. Then the move of 4.5" takes them outside of the 1"

Hmmm, you cannot end up 0.6mm away after the pivot. The rules state that your unit must be at least 1" away from any enemy unit after the pivot … :wink:

EDIT: I guess you are confused by the point that you may pivot this way when charging, but charge move is exceptional in a way that it does not care about staying away 1" from enemy units.

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in Movement: Enemy models… it stated that you must remain at least an inch away: except when charging, disengaging or during a pivot. In disengaging, it states as long as they end their mov at least 1" away, which i did

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I didn’t want to get into the specifics as I felt it would muddy the waters. But sure, let’s do it. :grin:

First you must differentiate between withdraw and disengage. What you described was a Withdraw (free bounce to one inch apart). According to the latest FAQ you do not count as disengaging the enemy unit if you first perform the withdraw. So you would need to back up a little bit more, and then perform the pivot, so you indeed have one inch between, and then complete the backing up.

Or you could simply not do the Withdraw inch, but just state that you are moving backward, this would enable you to indeed move inside one inch of the enemy, so just move back the smallest amount you need to not be touching the enemy after the pivot, and continue the backward move. However you must still end up outside of one inch at the end of your move, which is most often not impossible, which would render this option unusable anyway.

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During pivot =/= after pivot.
When you start moving after the pivot you are moving within 1" of enemy unit which is something the rules prohibit …

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Not completely true Ales, it’s allowed during a disengage. Backing up from your enemy is a disengage. As long as he ends outside it should be fine.
However the tundra wolves would need to back up a half inch or so before its pivot to not be touching their enemy, which would give them only 4 remaining inches of movement. Would that also clear the enemy Nav? If not, it’s just too short it seems.


Wrongful use of withdraw/disengage concepts Darkblack :smiley_cat: this nitpicking is what I knew would follow and was why I deliberately didn’t want to go into the nitty gritty of the question, lol.

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Sorry Fred, I have just reread the rules and still stand by what I said. To be more specific:

  1. The wolves are engaged at the beginning of their activation. If the unit wants to perform a standard move, it has to disengage/withdraw first, finishing the disengagement 1" away from the enemy.
  2. Only after the disengagement the unit can start moving backwards and is allowed to make 1 pivot due to being Nimble.
  3. The pivot rules clearly state that after completing the pivot, the pivoting unit has to be 1" away from any enemy units.

If the wolves were not engaged and started the move less than 1" away from an enemy unit, they could move backwards the way Fred and Nav propose.

I have just reread the rules once again and can see what Fred is saying. Now, I admit it is not as clear as I thought. As the rules are written, the engaged units seem to have two options. Either move disengaging or make a free withdraw move and then a standard move (backwards in this case). I find it pretty confusing to say the least. I have always interpreted the first paragraph about Disengaging (on page 18 in the rulebook) as an introduction to how it is done and the following part about Withrawal as how exactly the disengagement is performed. I have never thought the rules provide two options for moving engaged units. Are there really two options? Was it really intended?

If it is really so, then Fred is right about the mixing of disengagement and withdrawal.

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It is unclear whether or not it was meant as two separate options, but that is how it has emerged after many questions to RC members. It is indeed poorly written.

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OK, if RC member confirmed the two options, then we should live/play with it. Thanks @FredOslow for clearing it up.

Though, I still find my interpretation of the text (engaged unit has to withdraw first before making a standard move) as a logical one. It is only making things confusing if both options are allowed. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Idk, I think it is quite simple. Disengage when in base to base with enemy units, so you move 1" away to clear all enemy units, so if a unit has enemy units in front and flank, you move 1" away from all of them and that is it.

If unit has enemy unit in front, it can either disengage for 1" or withdraw for 1" and then can have other any movement order that is allowed. So no wavering unit can sidestep, but wavering can only go back.

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The withdraw is specifically prohibited when you are engaged on several sides. So I’m either misunderstanding you or you are wrong on that one. :slight_smile:

I think it causes confusion to say “disengage one inch” because that is not a thing. Disengaging would be via the move order, like by giving a Move Back order, you are per definition disengaging from the enemy because you move out of contact.

This is correct

This is by far the most confusing part of KOW 3rd ed.
I do not expect many to have it 100% right.