Regnum Aeternum - Written Battle Reports for KoW 3rd Edition

Kings of War Battle Reports / Games
385

Oof. I’ve been really busy this last week, and I have not kept up on the thread as closely as I wanted to! Quickly touching on some of the discussion points I missed…

  • On Deathpack. Thanks @Darkblack! I just had to have some of those old wolves. I missed your original hobbying post in that thread, but seeing them now, do really like your Deathpack as well; such a nice variety of spooky things, and I can respect all your individually based minis. Unit filler was such a fun way to spice up units. So many of my of my minis have stands, but hopefully some
  • On Cavern Dwellers. I can recall maybe one combat from my games where a Dweller did not do at least 3 damage – they have great stats and can really bring the pain. Having played Abyssals, some Trolls in Varangur, and some Lycans in Herd… a big Lifeleech like this seems stronger than Regeneration… though maybe I just like the consistency and getting away from my bad dice.
  • On Trevor’s Bromark. The Penitents have always been neat, and the heavy heals certainly worked out in those games. I like where this collection is heading!

And speaking of… my apologies to Trevor. We had been arranging to play last weekend, and then shifted over to a last-minute, slightly earlier meetup with a larger group, and we were not able to get him a game. Hopefully we’ll remedy that soon. For the meetup, I brought the Herd, as I want to explore some Trible Brute builds now.

Battle 139 was against a Basilean in plain old Invade.

Semi-spoilers, but the Herd did not have a good time! This version of the build was a little awkward to start with, but I took it as I was hoping for two games, and I had easy swaps from Hunters to Trappers for the second game. For better or for worse, one game was enough to determine that I did not like my approach.

  • Essentially, I tried using troops of Hunters of the Wild to escort Brutes into their combats, and I just don’t think that is a wise approach. I feel like the Herd is almost always going to be at both a drop and US disadvantage, and sacrificing troops just to get into combat just puts me at an even greater units disadvantage. Harpies are fine in a pinch, but this is not a good “Plan A” for how to engage.
  • The game showed just how integral multi-charging is to the Herd. I was multi-charging things I was not going to break, while also single-charging things that I shouldn’t, and the Herd really struggled overall. I will try to make multi-charging or bust my motto in the future.
  • At 2300 I think the Herd wants 4 sources of Inspiring. The Herd don’t have cheap “trashy” unlocks, so our unlock slots, especially hero slots, are highly prized. The Lycan Alphas are fun, and are great units, but they struggled to do it all without the speedier Lycan units loping alongside them. I’ll be trying out some specialized suites of heroes coming up and seeing what I like.

I have a loose goal of taking the Herd to our next local GT, which is probably early next year. We’ll see what madness I can come up with by then. I have lots and lots of ideas to test, so hopefully I can figure out some lists and get some additional games in soon.

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386

Always happy to see the Herd, and more and more convinced I want to go back to them next year (with apologies to the Salamander army I’m theoretically amassing right now :sweat_smile: ). On the list, I’ve found I don’t get great results from triple Brutes myself. Double Brutes, hell yes! But the third Brute horde always gets bogged down or strung out and killed without getting anything done :man_shrugging: I get a lot more out of a Tribal Spear horde in their place, to act as anchor and counter punch, often with the other Brutes.

On the game in specific, man, did I feel for all the dice antics :expressionless: I literally rolled my eyes when Moonfang was box car wavered, on top of all his hot breaks and your own ice cold ones. Sometimes it be like that. Also, it looks a lot to me like you could have combo-charged Moonfang and that flanking Beast into those Paladins in Turn 5. Sitting down the Elohi was cool I guess but the combo very likely kills that unit, plus puts almost all of your US onto the Basilean board side, which pulls the Elohi over if they want to kill you. As the game went on, I became aware that you were almost entirely operating on his side, which is Herd’s preferred state but also great for Invade, while he had barely moved apart from the angels. Until the wheels really came off in the late game, I secretly wondered if you were going to pull this off …

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387

The Basilean list looks solid, but two things seem strange to me.
Both legendary and gimmicky casters might be a bit much.
I can see taking them 'cause they’re cool though.
Is that sharpness on the Ur-elohi? That’s inefficient for 6 attacks.
35 points for one extra hit on averarage is a lot.
A blade of slashing would do most of the same thing for a fraction of the points.

For the game; I agree with your assesment and what @Boss_Salvage said including that things broke your opponent’s way. The way it goes sometimes. I will add that the unfamiliar and experimental list didn’t help either.

I’m not sure Moonfang could do that in turn 3.
No advance after withdraw and disorder from a phalanx (and/or ensnare) takes away nimble.

For the list; I agree with your assesment that dedicated chaff is too much of an investment. With Sp 6 brutes don’t always need it too.
I think that some lycans to project threat ahead of the brutes would help.
Tribal spear regiments to run next to the brutes might help?
As blockers either for flanks or moving ahead to prevent multi-charges. Versatile enough to useful in other ways too.

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I thought it was quite the flex :sweat_smile: A dozen or so better uses of those points, including giving the Elohi +1 CS or Me to form a dedicated hammer unit.

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Ooo, I thought I finally had one on you, but you are correct @Darkblack. I knew fliers lose Nimble if disordered, but missed that blurb in the normal Nimble section. Niche but neat! Another reason to like Spears, I guess. Though I kinda wish any disorder just stripped any Nimble. Might make the Nimble Heroic units a little more manageable. Thanks for catching that!

The list was a little weird. The three fancy, legendary casters was a bit much, but they all did well here. If memory serves the army and list was built and gifted to him by Joe (Imperial Dwarf player, now playing a lot of Tribesmen Northern Alliance and Draugr-based Varangur). Sharpness on a scoring hero is one of his favorite things to do… for whatever reason. I don’t condone it. :rofl:

Yeah, that was an option. Not intuiting the math at the time, and feeling like the game was over, I wanted see if the Beast could break something on his own, and if Moonfang could tank stuff. The game was closer than I thought, and multi-charging the Paladins was definitely the better play here.

I would agree. I think it’s pretty likely that I’ll eventually end up on a mix of Brutes/Lycans with Spears supporting, but I have a few more triple Brute games to try out before I want to try fine-tuning anything. I actually got two other Triple Brute games in this evening, and will try to get those up soon.

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390

They cannot! Every time I run Moonfang, I toss them into the front of a unit I think I can hold up and get mulched :grimacing: So now I don’t run Moonfang and let Alphas get thrown under buses …

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391

I owed Trevor some games, and luckily, schedules let us get them in sooner rather than later.

Battle 140 was Triple Brutes and shooting vs Brothermark in Dominate.
Battle 141 was Triple Brutes and Spirit Walkers vs Brothermark in Plunder.

Surprisingly, I came away with two strong wins. I was quite lucky, especially in the second game, sheesh, but good luck + some decent decisions made for some strong showings from the Herd.

  • The Brutes delivered in all games, with all three getting into combats in both games. They generally need an instigating unit though. Game 1 I had ineffectual shooters to sacrifice to start the piece trades, and the ensuing brawl worked out in my favor; Game 2 I was not able to instigate as well, but lucked out to get them all fighting by the end.
  • Spirit Walkers have some promise as an instigator unit here. I’ll need to play around with them more.
  • Druids and Big Spells look viable. I’ve griped a lot about how the Herd struggles against Phalanx, Def6, grinds, Obstacles, Shooting, and so much more… but there are spells to mitigate some of these impediments. Veil of Shadows was nice even if not as impactful this game, and Barkskin could also have some utility, especially with the Spirit Walkers. Running multiple spells from the Library of Arcane Knowledge is pricey though. I needed to utilize the Gladewalker Druid to get this done, and she needed the Lute since I didn’t much care for her base spells. I am not very experienced with casters, so I’ll need to try these out more to find what I like.
  • Moonfang had one mediocre game and one good game, thanks to a hefty helping of good luck. The conditional Vicious players really nicely with all the dice being thrown by the Guardian Brutes. If I can learn to throw him against slightly less scary units, I should be able to get more out of him. I can see potential, and why people like him. I just need to learn how to use him better (a little less recklessly).
  • Avatar of the Father finally had a good showing for me! He wasn’t shot off and also was not stuck up on an insanely courageous unit and then dog-piled. Progress! He’s got better combat stats than the Beast, but both really want flanks and multi-charges, so patience is proving very important when using the fliers.
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392

Thanks for another doubleheader of Herd! I was definitely chanting “Brutes! Brutes! Brutes!” during the first one, and that second game was wild :game_die: :game_die:

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393

Trapper formation!

I love the idea and it’s a right pain to get them out of terrain, but I also constantly assume that trappers are better than they are. I was a little surprised that they couldn’t shoot after scouting and and their shooting is so ineffective. To be fair, their points cost is surprising too, at 115 points they’re a tribal warrior unit that trades 1 De for a shooting attack and get you get what you pay for.

I don’t think that a cost effective way to hold terrain is really what your list needs though. :upside_down_face:

Well played for the win. The dice may have helped, but I think overall approach/strategy was the decided the game. You took advantage of the compact Brothermark deployment by encircling them with your fast elements while keeping them too engaged in a brawl to their front to respond to the flankers.

A wild game indeed! While the centre could have been closer, I think you would still have had the upper hand without the insane spirit walkers and especiallywithout insane Augustus. Your flankers on the right did well.

I agree that swapping out a horde of brutes for lycans wouldbe a good idea. Also, something cheap enough to be left with an objective would help.

All this is making me more and more tempted to get a Herd army of my own! :sweat_smile:

I have had an idea to do The Herd with a Greek mythology theme for a while. Seeing as Greek mythology led me to fantasy in the place and most of the Herd list is creatures from Greek myth, especially if one uses satyrs for “tribal” units.

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394

Good games indeed!

The first game was an ugly beat down. You played it perfectly from the get go. I’ll have to rethink my approach. With the second game, I liked my approach much better, and I think it would have come down to it at the end had the dice been more forgiving. Such is life! Thanks for getting in the games!

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I mean, I won’t discourage you! The Herd has definitely been a lot of fun for me, and despite consciously trying to shift over to other armies I keep falling back on them with more things to explore. Greek Myths would be an amazing theme for the army. RGD Gaming’s Fauns and Centaurs are amazing buys if you do look to start your own army @Darkblack.

Battle 142
Battle 1421920×1440 165 KB

…and speaking of being unable to shake the Herd, I have another battle report with Battle 142.

  • The Stampede did what I was hoping it would, which is hold, but it’s expensive and not what the list really needs. It hits hard, but doesn’t have enough other speedy elements to help it out, and 15 attacks is not likely to break anything on its own.
  • Moonfang was not used aggressively enough, but I’m slowly getting a better feel for him.
  • Basic Druids were fine, but not what I need since hero slots are so tight in these builds. I think Arcane Library Spells are the way to go. Barkskin is neat and does work well with the Spirit Walkers and Brutes … but saving 2-3 damage doesn’t seem worth it, and it puts me in a defensive mindset. I think Veil and Scorched Earth will be the spells to shoot for next.
  • I’m still on my Triple Brute Builds and have a few more ideas to test out before moving on, and the (admittedly tipsy) chat afterwards was enlightening. While Ogre Berserkers are comparable to Brutes, we agreed that the strength of Ogres comes from their cheap square-based heroes, and the ability to take a lot of them thanks to unlocking Warrior regiments. Tossing a hero or two in front of the Berserkers to block really lets the unit do work and survive… and is not something the Herd can replicate. Abyssal Berserkers are on a whole different level with their better Nerve and Speed that there aren’t too many parallels to draw here either!

We agreed that I needed to be more patient, and needed a better plan to engage, (ie Harpies dying to prevent multi-charges). As it was, I mostly just offered my units up one at a time like my opponent was hoping I would! For my build, he liked the flying Beasts and suggested deploying Brutes centrally with the faster Spirit Walkers on the flank, which is not something I had considered, since the Walkers were the slow-pokes in the throwback lists, but this does look like a neat idea to try. The Wine of Elvenkind looks super-fun for this idea, and we’ll see if I can get it on the table soon!

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396

Thanks for the report! Brutal game against a dumb list (#nerfwhen) but honestly good playing on both y’all’s parts, lots of smart combat placement that I don’t often think of. Besides the harpies blocking for the stampede :stuck_out_tongue: Nimble is rough! I do think deployment did you in, tho I was really hoping the stacked brutes would somehow win out in the grind (spoilers: ain’t no grind against zerker spam)

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397

Abyssal Beserker spam looks rough to deal with. I agree that you needed your flyers to do more threat projection and blocking

Figuring out how to deal with a list like that during your first game against it is practically impossible, so don’t be too hard on yourself.

It sucks that the stampede is so far from what it says on the tin.

A unit getting spammed like that is a strong sign that it needs a look. The RC have been good on that kind of thing in the past, but work on 4th ed might have stopped any balancing that could be moot soon anyway.

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Yeah, 2nd they were a large cavalry horde with 30 attacks (albeit on 4’s). As a chariot regiment now they have the same footprint, but only 15 attacks. There are other changes, but the gist is that the new Stampede now has nice niche uses with Strider, but really needs some multi-charges and help to be effective. It’s just not what this list needs.

Having run the Berserkers myself, I knew if they got caught up on something they could be beaten, but my opponent was laser-focused on getting in those multi-charges to one-shot my units whenever he had the chance, and I was unable to get any traction. Had he taken the bait on some solo-charges with them, I could have had a way into the game, but he’s a very experienced player. My opponent used them very well, but yeah, facing the spam was a bit daunting from this side of the table! Intra-army they are a weird unit with the Molochs existing too, but I think Boss is right and there is just a little too much in the pipeline for KoW to have the unit addressed, but we’ll see what adjustments are made in the future.

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Kings of War Wisconsin had our September meetup last weekend. School and otter commitments ate into our attendance, but I was lucky enough to get in a pair of games, still with the triple Brutes. Overall, my approach was to put Brutes in the center, Spirit Walkers on a flank, and see what I could do.

Battle 143 against the Halfings in tourney prep and Push.

The Halfings are just too tough a match-up for me. Everything my Herd has tried to do, the Halflings just seem to do it better and cheaper while at the same time fielding numerous things that my army struggles to deal with effectively. I had a few lucky breaks here, but not enough to keep me in this game.

Battle 144 against Kingdoms of Men in Dominate.

This game went waaaaay better for me. I was familiar with how much damage Pikes can take, and was wary of engaging with them with 4" Brutes. Not taking his early bait really threw my opponent off, and let me pressure him in return, leading to some big swings and a ridiculously strong victory.

I typically wing my deployments to a large extent, but putting the Brutes centrally and Spirit Walkers on the flank generally worked well. I have yet to try Centaurs here, and the Spells are still being looked at, but overall, things are going ok with the build.

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How you handled all the juggers looked like a good start, but tough breaks.

On the list; I have a hard time making dragon-type units worthwhile. They cost for hitting power and for maneuverability, so have to use both to make them worthwhile. I find a cheaper unit that does one of those for cheaper easier to get value out of.

Either a giant-type unit that can just get to punching stuff or a nimble monster/ large with Sp 8+ (not necessarily flying) can threaten and distract all game and be worthwhile for it’s points.

Especially in an elite list like this that appears to suffer for loot carriers.

I think haste is the best fit for the spirit walkers, more threat projection and getting fighting faster looks more useful than trying fancy manoeuvres to me.

All that said; it appears to be time to play what’s fun, because there’s no telling how much of this testing or discussing will matter in 4th.

Well played! That looked like a bad matchup for you on paper. With so much pike to blunt your strike and counter TC.

You played well with good threat projection and pressure, but I think your opponent sealed the result with how they bailed on their right flank. More a rout than withdrawal. Trying to run away and keep units safe just let you pick them off and it created a mess in the centre which gave you a lot of flanks to charge.

A better direction would have been to shift some units to support the centre and using the rest to delay/hold up your strong left flank push.
I also agree that spreading the pikes out would have helped, even one regiment on against your left flank would have held things up much better.

Thanks for the shoutout with your werewolves! The Cheshire Cat grin looks great on that shield.
It is a little alarming that my last battle, report was so long ago! I have also not had a very gaming condusive year.

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The shoutout seemed fitting, and I’m pleased with how the unit turned out. Glad you like it as well, and we’ll hope my unit is half as effective as yours were! I am not good at fluffily renaming units, so if you have any suggestions (DarkBlack’s Ravagers, etc) I’m open to it!

This is part of why I like the Avatar on paper. I get Pathfinder, and am not paying for any superfluous breath attacks, like your average titanic flyer (Archfiends, Dragons, etc). It’s just a mean flying fighter on a monster-sized base, so hopefully, I should be able to fight well, with a bit of a discount, relative to those other titanic fliers. The flying Beast though is ~2/3rds the cost of the Avatar and about as effective though, so point taken!

Yeah, I think most of these efforts of mine are going to be a bust. With all the stuff slated to be announced this week, I imagine 4th will be here before the tournament I had in mind for this list. Oh well.

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I’ve been too busy for my liking, but I have still squeezed in a few games, trying to get in the last few build / style ideas for each army played before 4th Edition drops.

Battle 145 was Undead MMU against the Halflings in Plunder.
Rob is apparently ranked #9 on the Mantic App now? So, this is always going to be tough, but at least I wasn’t running the Herd into the Halfling meat grinder this time!

I mostly did ok. Soul Reavers were shepherded into combats well, but my focus on scoring heroes with the double duo of Lykanises and Vampires on Pegasi meant that I lacked units to effectively piece trade, and so I struggled after those initial combats when the Soul Reavers began to waver or get swarmed.

I took no waver mitigation on my Soul Reavers this game, and the did show why those items can be so powerful and popular in 3rd. I’m excited to see what 4th Edition does for my Undead MMU!

Battle 146 was Varangur shooting vs Kingdoms of Men in Loot.
I had run a lot of Varangur shooting in the small league games earlier in the year, and was long-overdue for a “proper” game with them. I had been hoping for a Varangur mirror-match, but Joe was retouching that army, and brought his very pokey Kingdoms of Men list again, with an abundance of Pikes!

I had the presence of mind to deploy the Conclaves back a bit, and the game had good moves on both sides, especially early on. The Kingdoms of Men deployed their infantry well, and were able to move everything up at the double in Round 1 to start closing the distance quickly, but I was able to move the Conclaves around, delay well, and eventually grind the humans down for the win.

Battle 147 was Abyssal MMU with Rally vs Basileans in Dominate.
The Abyssals got a few smaller games in this year. I got to play around with the new Fearless Horsemen (awesome), and both with and against the Abyssal Berserkers a few times. One thing I had not explored yet was Abyssal Guard MMU and their new (now about a year old…) Rally buff. We took a very infantry-heavy list against Trevor’s new Basileans additions to his old Brothermark, as he eyes up how 4th Edition will change his collection.

Well, the Basileans had an ideal game and a wonderful debut! I did not deploy well at all, and just set myself up for a very difficult game. Just enough bounced my way to keep things competitive, but bad decisions paired with numerous wavers really hurt the Abyssals here.

Rally was neat, but a bit unwieldy since I was trying to test it out and really skewed my list to focus on it. With the exception of maybe double Def5 Guard together to hold ground, it’s a nice bonus, but not something I want to really commit to or rely on in the future, since it only works with Lesser Abyssal units, which are all over the place. Unfortunately, it was rumored that Guard are going away, which would be a bit of a shame. We’ll have to wait and see what 4th has in store for my Abyssals!

Just a handful of things to hopefully test still if I can find the time. And one small tournament coming in earlyish November to close out 3rd Edition for me. More to come in November!

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403

Just getting to the third report, but thanks so much for keeping the batreps flowing late into the edition! It’s been really nice to relax with some coffee and a crisp report in the morning, and you’ve single-handedly made me wonder if maybe I should play some KOW some time before 4E?

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Thanks for the reports!

A tough opponent indeed. I still think you could benefit from more concentration of force. The soul reavers on the left were doomed and wasted. If you had skeletons there instead and brough all three soul reaver regiments to bear in the middle, I think the game would have gone better.

Well played. Your opponent did make it easier by not grabbing tokens, though. If they kept a pike regiment back with loot and picked up loot with the horde you would have been hard pressed (but likely able) to go get a token.

The bows seemed more useful, though bigger terrain would have helped. :winking_face_with_tongue:

Your list didn’t seem to come together, it happens when we experiment.

I think the rally is a nice perk to stiffen a line, rather than something to lean into. It’s not going to give weak combat troops a backbone.
With lower abyssals becoming “trash” I’m not sure what would be worth getting the rally for though.

Not my favourite change tbh. Even lower demons should be a threat to a human, not fight like goblins. That’s what imps are for.
As much as I appreciate the RC, they seem to design rules “bottom up”. Concerning themselves with the impossible task of making EVERYTHING competition viable through rules and mechanics, but not really giving much consideration to versimilitude and theme.
Sorry for ranting a bit.

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