Regnum Aeternum - Written Battle Reports for KoW 3rd Edition

Kings of War Battle Reports / Games
365

That went well! Good job. I don’t think there’s much to add.

Bit of a rant, sorry:

Chariots are an example of something that the RC have tried desperately to get people to take. Through cooler uniquer rules.
Chariots are cool, so people want them, but what to do with them? Plus the obsession with every unit being taken to tournaments. Which has added up to a mess of rules.

Both things are a game design trap, IMO.
If units have a similar role, one will always be more cost effective at that role. Just let there be options that are cool but slightly sub-optimal. As long as it’s not so bad as to be a liability.

Cavalry made chariots obsolete historically. Chariots are really just cavalry using horses that can’t carry a warrior on their back.
So chariots that are designed to feel like chariots on the table will have a hard time competing with cavalry.
It’s a problem that can’t be solved.

My recommendation is to treat chariots like cavalry.
Have some cavalry in the game have chariot models (like ogres) and add to the exceptional base size rule to let people use chariot models for cavalry units.
Done and simple.

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The historian in me actually appreciates the rant, and agrees with all the points made. I would agree that the designers are still struggling a bit to find a niche for most chariots, but I don’t know if I have much to add or any solutions myself just yet. The game has a fair amount of unit-size baggage, and I somewhat doubt that Chariots are going anywhere like you’d hope and suggest.

Personally, I would like to tweak the stats so chariots and cavalry aren’t directly competing, but I think the smarter design choice would be to double down on the Ogre approach and just start giving armies access to primarily either one or the other. That way the chariots can more effectively do stuff without directly competing against the generally stronger cavalry options within a roster. Letting Chariots ignore the Speed reduction due to carrying Loot Tokens could be another intriguing design idea to explore. I’m obviously still skipping down the design trap path here, but if they aren’t removed from the game, there are still big and small ways to tweak them into more relevance I think.

Then, it took me longer to write these up than I was expecting, but I also have two more games to report on:

Battle 133 was against Abyssal Dwarfs in Pillage, for a league game.
Being a league game, I brought some experimental silliness, including Chariot Regiments and flying Wizards with Wind Blast. I really like the Abyssal Dwarf list, but was a rough match-up for me and my silliness. Things worked out though, and the fliers and the humans were able to play the positional game for the win.

Battle 134 was against Halflings in Control, for a masters practice game.
I brought a Kingdoms of Men list with some proxied flying Beast Cavalry, since I don’t have plans to hobby the unit up myself right now, and it was a style Rob wanted to practice against. I wasn’t confident with pure proxied aggression, so I brought my Crossbowmen and triple Ballistae along as well, trying to shoot things early and constrict the halflings with a slightly longer charge range.

Alpha strike is not a strong style for me yet, but I am definitely learning more and more, and I was pleased with how I played this game overall. Rather than just moving fast and charging first, it’s important to be charging the right things at the right time. I was very patient here and was doing a good job of leading with the Pikes. A few misplays due to an unfamiliar unit being the focal point of the list, but I’m happy overall.

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367

Thanks for the report! Man, those Halflings are tough (Rob’s but also in general). FWIW I think you played really well this game, lots of smart charge blocking against an army that is positively salivating to zip around screens and combo-charge you.

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Thank you very much for the kind words of encouragement. Yeah, I’m pleased with the arc of my performances here. Blowout to close loss to tie is the right trajectory. :stuck_out_tongue:

The triple Juggers are just so darn strong in his list. Nimble heavy cavalry is already very good, but it’s hard to interact with the heroes in the early turns, and even then you can’t really interact with Auras. So add Striding and something from the Sauceror (1-3 range, or 1-3 Brutal usually) and these regiments can just start deleting units out of nowhere. I feel like they should be hitting on 4’s like 2nd Edition’s Halfling Knights, but it’s hard to balance intra-list synergies. I suppose.

Anywho, wishing you and the Freeforged the very best of luck!

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Thanks! I’m just hoping I don’t face Dwarfs three games in a row like last year :melting_face:

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I played a few games over the weekend, and the first report is up already! The other two will take some time but should hopefully be done by the end of the week.

Battle 135 was the Herd vs Varangur in Protect and Raze

The game had a ridiculous amount of speed on the table and the first two turns were brain-melting for me. My opponent had a really strong game with the Draugr, utilizing Ordered March from Skalds to make them as problematic as he could despite their slow speed, and they did very well in that regard. However, as covered in the report, he did get too aggressive with his Tundra Wolves though, getting all three (!) of them into range for Round 2 charges, though this put them in danger too. I was able to deal with them all safely and pretty swiftly, and then get a number of good multi-charges in, for the overwhelming victory.

This is probably the last big game I will do explicitly exploring Keith Conroy’s approach to the Herd. It’s been a lot of fun, but I don’t like to mimic and it’s time to move on with the army. Briefly identifying the key units:

  • Flying Beasts are strong, though other Herd players (and Nature players, and Green lady players) have recognized this as well. Good Nerve and defense on such a mobile monster is nice, and these can take a lot of effort to pin down.
  • Spirit Walkers are just a unique unit, and really encourage an aggressive playstyle. With their low defense, they will rarely survive a game, but can also really apply the pressure, as 30 quality attacks is going to dent most things. They and the Brew of Haste was a choice unique to Keith, and something unchanged in his lists year after year after year.
  • Lycans are potent and useful, but have a very high skill ceiling. Pressuring things is the name of the game for using them, and me biding my time until I could get multi-charges worked well for me this game. That timing sense seems like a huge skill for alpha-strike lists, and I think this game shows that I’ve learned a least a little something so far about playing alpha strike!

I may write up a deeper dive on his style of Herd play, but this report caps off the games with it for now. Two more unrelated games were played this weekend, and those reports should be up later this week.

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Two very cool armies in this report made for a particularly interesting read. I do think the Varangrr are missing some teeth (specifically teeth that are taller than H2 so they can interact with the Draugr trash wall better) but I appreciate how hard he teched into the Draugr side of things (including the Magos blood transfer thing).

Great play with the heavy Lycan list, nice to see it finding success. Y’all have also convinced me to finish painting the other half of my Spirit Walker horde - I was going to give regiments a shot but with De 3+ I don’t think they’re particularly viable, so maybe I’ll just make it a solid horde for when I need absolutely everybody to go fast.

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Thanks Boss.

Yeah, we chatted a lot afterwards, as he doesn’t like getting tabled. :sweat_smile: I liked his list and army concepts too (he says he’s going for a “cult” drawing from Lovecraft, Hellraiser and such), and like how it’s growing. I suggested spreading the Draugr regiments out a bit. If 1-2 is around the Cavern Dweller and each of the Hearthguard, they all become much harder to engage. We’ll see what he does in the next games.

Way back in 2023 I tried Spirit Walkers a few times. (Battle 036, Battle 037, Battle 038) They mostly just confused me. The regiments hit nicely and can do alright, but they are an expensive reserve unit, and do need some extra babysitting, which then quickly becomes cost-prohibitive. Everything the Herd has is just so expensive that we have a hard time flooding the board with regimental threats. I think hordes as instigators are the way to go with the Spirit Walkers.

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My problem is that tribal spear regs are just so damn good …

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… that it’s hard to want to tinker with much else. These guys have been winning me games since I started playing the faction, and IIRC haven’t changed at all beyond TC becoming optional for the stingiest of Herd generals :triumph: Great at scenario play, as survivable as they need to be (and a nightmare for cav), and able to put out damage in a pinch, they’re just all timers. I’ve run tribal warrior regs at lower points before, simply because I couldn’t afford multiple spear units, but that was strictly a downgrade.

However, I hear you, if you’re out for MSU/MMU (which you usually are) and want your regs to lift, spear regs aren’t strictly there for that. The old longhorns definitely were but RIP to those guys.

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100%. I was late to Herd and the Longhorns, but that was a very fun unit while it lasted. Shame that if just a few tweaks/ nerfs were reversed (smashy Longhorns and striding Chariots), the army would be so much more dynamic and viable.

The Spear Hordes been been pretty good for me, but I don’t think I’ve properly explored the regiments yet. I was drafting up lists the other day (trying to make Guardian Brute hordes work) and was actually squeezing in some Spear Regiments for unlocks and for token play. I am probably a few weeks out from getting in another big game with the Herd, but we’ll see how that all does for me.

Then, I did get a few other games in last weekend, with the Varangur.

Battle 136 was shooty axe Varangur vs Brothermark in Loot
Battle 137 was shooty bow Varangur vs Brothermark in Protect and Raze

In both games, my shooting struggled to make headway against Iron Resolve and heavy heals from the Brothermark.

  • Night Raiders are fun, but need support which they did not get. After a handful of games, the Bows seem like way better default picks. Axes could be viable, but I think only for troops, and only in a very aggressive list.
  • Horse Raiders also need support, which they also did not get. Ranged cavalry need a nudge to see how you want to use them… the Raiders have Melee 4+ and TC1, so are more of a Mounted Sergeant unit with a ranged attack, than a Mounted Scout unit. Shooting is not what you want to be doing with these, and I think you really want to back them up with Mounted Sons or something. Bows again seem more viable, but again in a very aggressive list, axes and troops could work.
  • Magus Conclaves have a lot of cool things going for them, including stealthy, nimble, and steady aim. These are rare rules for a war machine and worth exploring! They did alright, though struggled to keep pace against the heals, as these were the only things consistently dealing ranged damage.

Rough match-ups for wacky Varangur shooting, but we put up a decent fight. Focusing on either Night Raiders + Support or Horse Raiders + Support would be the way to go in the future for shooty Varangur, as having both in a list is just too much tickling, and they need something scary to do the heavy lifting in the melee phase.

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375

Thanks for the writeup! Those were both fun games. I continue to play around with the trash Brothermark list. I liked Tyler Schultz list at US Masters, but I think it’s easier to get value from regiments of penitents than hordes. The hordes often die just as easily and are so big I end up blocking off my own charges.

For this iteration of the concept: a double rallied penitent regiment with fury aura is close to -/16 Def 3. It dies to concentrated shooting, but then my arbalests win the countershooting game. And between iron resolve and double Phoenix heal, any unit that doesn’t die is getting healed back up pretty quickly. Fun match ups, and I continue to explore.

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Cheers for the fresh reports! I’m really gratified how engrossing KOW is with two combined arms forces facing each other, coming from the Masters where my matches in particular were so one-sided :confused:

Also, I found myself keeping track of how many times bows would have been better than axes in the first game :sweat_smile: As in, bows would have allowed those units to interact with the game a) at all or b) in more ways than they were forced to thanks to the short range of their axes. I’m a big fan of rolling dice whenever possible, even if those dice are somewhat mediocre.

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I do think we see skewier lists at masters etc than in garage games. Maybe more optimal builds, but balanced, mixed arms games make for a lot of fun here.

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We got a lot of rain over the weekend, but a small group of us braved the weather with a trip out to the shop for the monthly league meetup. I only got one game in, against Rob and his Ravenous Halflings.

Battle 138 is Varangur vs Halflings in Plunder

As-always, my list was on the half-baked side and I was expecting a tough match, especially since the scenario demands you spread out. Up against the Halflings, I opted to play hard for just three objectives, and aim for a narrow win. Luck was on my side though! I managed to get first turn, and really apply the pressure. I had some good dice at good moments, and while there is room for improvement, I had no egregious errors.

  • The Fallen have intrigued me for a long time, and I put my recent alpha strike games to good use here, being aggressive with them, while supporting them with good supporting multi-charges. They were really zipping around the battlefield, and I greatly enjoyed running the unit.
  • Cavern Dwellers are tough, and I usually feel like I have one chance in a given game to best them. So in a bit of an unsporting move, I brought two here, and resolved to be aggressive with them. That worked well, but I got lucky with them where I needed it.
  • Reaver Troops were fielded again. They had decent games due to hot melee dice from them and cold shooting dice into them. They are a bit too expensive and too fragile to be front-line troops, and while I used them a bit better here, but still don’t think I supported them properly this game either. Maybe a list based around Tribesmen with them as a second line (mop-up duty; layered line for dealing with fliers) could work as a way to use them, but am still not sure. It’s a neat unit, but an odd one.
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379

Taken me a while to get to these.

Very nice scenario play. Not being able to punch is rough, so well done.

That’s a result that shows progress! Well done.

The flying heroes really showed their worth here.

You have definitely figured out how to play alpha strike style. Well done!

I like the triple lycan list plus large hero support list.
I’m also impressed by the spirit walkers. I didn’t rate them before, but they showed their value here.

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So many people online hate cavern dwellers, but I’ve always found them to be nasty. Def 5, 16/18 nerve, Lifeleech(3) on a small base means you get them wherever you need, and they’re an absolute roadblock. They’re going to lock down anything they come in contact with and stall it out.

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Makes me miss my Varangur!

In the first game confused trollls really cost you. Which sucks, but can be amusing to imagine.

I definitely think that infantry that has to be in something’s charge range to shoot has to then be able to take the charge they’re instigating.
De 3+ units are better off with some distance.

I agree with your assesment on the horse raiders.
They should be acting like discount flyers with bonus plink damage.
I’m inclined to say that the Me 3+ could be the nudge they need, but I really like theme of the formation. So I’m probably biased in their favour.

Sliksneer is quite promising for an aggressive barbarian keyword list.
I recall playing against Sliksneer with my dwarfs and being concerned with the extra brutal because it pushes combat results above average and my dwarfs are designed to punish average rolls.

All that healing made things seem less effective than they are too. That Brothermark list is tough.

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That’s a good insight.

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Fate was on your side, but don’t sell yourself short. Well done.

My main gripe with them is that I miss them with regen.
Life leech (3) is not effectively that different though.

@TastyBagel nice work on your deathpack.
I took a different approach to mine.

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Thanks. I keep iterating and playing around with a few concepts. The easiest way to get a points advantage is to negate something your likely opponents spend points on (eg if everyone brings hex, going no magic, or if everyone brings shooting, go with nightstalkers).

With virtually all armies having easy access to crushing, and yet still paying points for it, low defense trash effectively makes them waste points on a bad matchup. Then I layer in rally to make sure everything is rally(2), lots of heal to mitigate shooting, and then play the US game. At US Masters, we saw lots of variations on this trash concept at the top (Ballard’s trashstalkers, Travis Timm’s 24 drop trash goblins, Scott Holcomb’s high US Basileans, even Jeff Schiltgen had 16 drops, including a bunch of cheap draugr and snow troll primes). With Brothermark, I try to ensure I have something that can at least hit back.

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