Regnum Aeternum - Written Battle Reports for KoW 4th Edition

Kings of War Battle Reports / Games
61

Thanks @AlbatrossAlbert! I’m glad you found it interesting – I did too! I’ve never liked “gun lines” but am trying to mix in some more ranged stuff this edition. I like that its harder to get shot off, and that “tempo” play looking for wavers and such seems like a difficult but rewarding playstyle to explore.

I generally like the new edition. Nothing is perfect though. Blizzard definitely warrants a nerf or two, and I think Cannons should innately hit on 6’s. I really liked the weaker Ballista / Arbalest options previously, and thought them ideally hitting on 4’s was a nice niche for them. Aside from super-strong cannons and list building being more complex, I like a lot of what’s going on so far.

Ooo, yeah. I think I reformed and slid down instead of around. Yeah, that would have been good to have seen in the moment. Darn it!

Agreed on the Orders. Ya know, that’s a consideration that hadn’t directly occurred to me while trying to evaluate things, across a few armies. A lot of Warlords probably seem over-costed due to a lack of orders. That’s a bummer.

And I am most happy to help not get work done! I spent most of my day writing up a new report that should be done later this week. I like a lot of the list. I might circle back to a Skeleton Archer Horde eventually, and Fire Oil could be a good item for them… but yowza. I think they go back on the shelf for a while.

…I am loving the Bloodboil pony idea though. Yoink

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62

I had some free time tonight, and managed to finish this up. I have been a bit spoiled for games this year, and was able to get in another game yesterday.

Battle 031 was Abyssals (Lower Abyssal Hordes) vs speedy Orcs in Raze.

The Orcs played it safe, and ended up overkilling lots of units and fighting on their side of the board for most of the game. So despite having an inferior list, I was very happy with the result, despite a fumble at the end from me. We led the scoreboard for most of the game, and kept things very close!

  • I did not jive with Lower Abyssal Hordes. Neither the staying power nor damage output is there for my tastes, and they felt like expensive Skeletons, which in turn often perform like expensive Zombies. It’s boring / expensive, but Regiments of these might be the way to play them. They can grab tokens and play the scenario while everything else in the list does fun stuff.
  • Fiends were a heroic unit I liked in 3E, but they caught a lot of changes, and a points hike. They survived the game, but I didn’t like them here. Supporting Flame Bearers could be a lane for them though.
  • I wanted to give Tortured Soul regiments another try. I have three regiments worth of models, after all. They got some sneaky charges as my opponent kept forgetting they had fly, and so they did work… but this is an overperformance. The Specialist slot is in high demand, and if you want to run these, troops are the way to go.

Still not sure about the Core options. All of these approaches have been pretty skewed, and all had pretty big draw backs, basically as-expected. Tackling all the possible iterations, even for a single battalion would be bonkers, so we’ll just continue to test things out as list ideas coalesce for the Forces of the Abyss.

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63

I’ve never been keen on shooting undead.
I consider Undead’s strenght to be the ability to gum up your opponent with expendable units to let high value units shine. Those same expendable units are cheap enough to unlock and leave points for more than average high value and/or all rounder units.
Gumming things up gets in the way of shooting.
Admittedly a style preference on my part, though.

The zombie regiments might actually have been more useful than skeleton archers. Or skeleton warriors, still cheaper. Those could have freed up hordes from carrying tokens and have better Me.

I like the idea of the Revenant Kings on Wyrm.
Shooting titans bring my steel behemoth to mind, though these have worse attacks.
As a second line support unit they can shoot over infantry without giving cover and do damage while supporting (inspiring and command orders) and/or repositioning. Then get in the fight when enemies are already damaged.
Plus thinking of them as heroes instead of giants leverages more of thier value.

I noticed that you had a Revenant King and standard bearer next to each other on the right, which is doubling the 4th hero tax.

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64

Nice game. The orc list looks brave, with all that investment in Ne 15 units.
I wondered about those expensive artefacts for the number of attacks, but it appears that commands make orcs more aggressive than they look on paper.

I would have pushed up on the left in turn 5. The orcs had no reason not to go score instead, so give them one. Either a double charge or a flank threat if they move away.

I like the hordes, they soaked up charges and had good board presence. The high nerve gets more value from regeneration.
I’m not fond of two handed weapons for them, though.
They’re a defensive unit IMO.
I really don’t like Me 5+ for them.IMO, even lower demons should outfight goblins and be on par with humans.

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65

Good insights @Darkblack. Thanks!

Yeah, shooting is not the forte of the Undead, but I needed to try it all out again. Skeleton Archers are staying on my shelf no matter the list. Wyrm Lords are fun but oof. That points cost! I think they are better in other lists, where they can just be striding, supporting monsters, and just ignore their breath attack in most instances, as you are rarely going to get anything done with it. For actual shooting, a few Balefires are fine, and add a nice option for the Undead, as with Indirect, they might be able to shoot over your gummy lines without issue. We’ll try to explore lists that separate these ideas in the future.

For the Abyssals vs Orcs, I felt Joe was overcommitting to combats, and greatly overkilling stuff. He also tends to go all in on items, for whatever reason. Orc rage by itself is just bonkers, and it is not uncommon for a unit to just take damage in excess of the number of base attacks from the Orc unit. A wild list from him with all the Gore Riders, but I think we’ll see him shift back to a mix of infantry and cavalry once he finishes up some more hobbying.

For the Abyssals themselves, I’d generally agree with those observations. I think Lower Abyssals at Melee 5 is the original sin of their awkward core picks. If they were hitting on 4’s, I think they become a nice anchor and go-to unit, and then you can supplement them with the other options.

I will give regiments of lowers with 2-handers a try sometime, as they remind me of my Skeletons with two-handers. Against melee lists that might be ok, but Fearless is what really made the Skeletons work, so I don’t have high hopes. Lowers do seem better as hordes, and with Def4. It was also suggested elsewhere that a horde gets the Crystal Pendant, which does seem like a devious idea!

I’ve tried a few extremes for the Abyssal core options so far, and none has really seemed super-effective. From a balance perspective, that is probably good! I’ll need to mix and match going forward.

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66

Fair enough!
Thanks again for writing up the results of your experiments for the rest of us.

That sounds devilish!
Discouraging multi-charges and drawing shooting to of a horde with regeneration is useful even if the pendant doesn’t go off.

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67

It’s been a busy couple of months, but I was able to get in a game against Trevor this past weekend, finally bringing out my Kingdoms of Men for a 4E game.

Battle 032 was KoM vs Basileans in Hold the Line

I want to try more shooting in 4E, and we both ended up bringing lists that invested into that approach, though in very different ways.

In short, I liked my opponent’s approach to everything more than mine. One battalion with champions and cannons is easier to field than two battalions with multiple warlords and lots of low-tier war machines. For KoM specifically:

  • The Flying Baron got a multitude of small, unfortunate nerfs. I do like that we won’t see triples of these anymore, from immersion and balance perspectives, but these feel a little too expensive for what you get now.
  • Chariots finally have a neat niche, able to charge into units with Phalanx and not care. …however they are definitely not hammers, and being limited to regiments and forced to take bows makes them a bit inefficient.
  • Multiples of Knights were just too difficult to use. Keeping them on the front line and projecting threat would have been a better approach here, and I still think with the changes to hindered charges, most folks are going to find the one regiment with J-Boots the best option.
  • Light cavalry are something I really want to like. The melee version looks fine, but the shooty one is worse off than ever before.

This was a great time and I learned a lot. The Kingdoms of Men have a ton of options still, and we’ll try and bring them out with a little more regularity. I’ve played a surprisingly amount of games so far this year but there’s just so much to explore in the new edition it is hard to keep up over multiple armies! Definitely more to come over the summer months.

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68

Thanks for the report, and the shout-out :clinking_glasses: Great work on the table, highest of fives for that (hindered / TC-less) knight regiment absolutely bodying units off :sweat_smile:

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69

Yeah, the extra attacks on the Knight’s new profile was very impactful, and my one Bane Chant was luckily able to land and contribute too.

The Bloodboil Wizard seems like a good call, but juking around the building proved to be too difficult. We’ll try to give them another try soon!

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70

And while May games were looking dismal, I managed to snuck in another game recently, and with some extra free time, was able to turn the report around pretty darn quick.

Battle 033 was Ogres vs Orcs in Seek and Destroy

Sounds like a number of future tournaments have bumped up to 2500 points. While our group is probably staying at 2300 to help Rob with Masters preparations, for a random meetup, we wanted to explore things at the larger size.

I struggled to come up with a list in time, but eventually settled on truly MSU Ogres, now that their troops can pay the core tax and be unlock things. An assortment of Warriors would support multiple battalions, with four Shooters and three Lighting Bolt Warlocks. It was an unfamiliar list, and a very tough game, as shooting approach can be a bit dubious against such aggressive Orcs.

I got very lucky in a few instances in the midgame, punching out a Krudger on Winged Slasher a few turns ahead of schedule, as well an insane hold during a bit of an over-commitment from the Orcs to tie up all the other scary units at the time, and thus buy me a lot of time. With lots little units, and non-individual characters that could actually pick up tokens, Seek and Destroy was a good scenario for me, and we came away with a surprise win.

Troops and characters was a very fun way to play the Ogres!

  • Warriors are solid performers, both with their normal shields and with two-handers.
  • Beserkers have some nice Nerve plus Fearless. They do ok and can help mix things up with their Wild Charge, but I think most lists will want hordes, and MSU lists probably want a few troops instead of just one.
  • Shooters and their 30" range were fun, but a) this was probably an over-commitment to them, and b) more mobile Boomers are probably just better here.
  • Warlocks were neat, and Lightning Bolt with the boosted dice was pretty effective here. I don’t know how they fare in a more typical list though, as their spell selection is goofy, and there are some other good Champions picks in the army.
  • Nom and Grok are still great picks. Nom has a lot of good spells, and Grok can crush things all on his own, just like before. With Warriors around, its pretty easy to fit both in.

The new edition hit the Ogres with a big reduction to their Unit Strength, but they are still head-and-shoulders above most of the other Large Infantry options around, as their attacks are untouched at 18. They still seem very popular, and it was fun to take them for a spin with a pretty unique list and approach.

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71

Well played! A very humans in fantasy victory. Where things seemed dire, but the scrappy underdogs won out on the scenario with some heroics

This goes against my sensibilities, as a historical wargamer. :smiling_face_with_tear:
Cavalry being badly penalised in terrain agrees with those same sensibilities, though, so I like the way they’re handled..

I also think that your knights did well in this game. One regiment did well despite terrain and the rest were up against your opponent’s strong flank. You seem to mixing two approaches though.
I’d recommend each regiment either be a second line that goes in after you infantry engage OR use their speed to apply pressure. The latter ideally using light cavalry troops as a screen.

Admittedly, I’m extra optimistic on knights because my current wargaming interest is a Norman army.

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72

Gotta say, I’m not really a fan. I think 2300 is fine (gotta decide between chaff or Good Stuff #3), 2400 feels good (nevermind keep that chaff in), 2500 reads like “I would like to spam Good Stuff #4” more than anything :roll_eyes: The team tournament I go to every September (Crossroads GT) is thinking about 2300 points, single battalion and that’s like the perfect answer IMO.

Anyway! What a game, I was really not sure what the end result would be, given the orc sledge hammer on one side and the Oops! All US 1 ogres on the other. But a single US is all you need in Loot, so game on.

Pity about the vanishing damage markers (especially as they weren’t dice!!) and the rules kerfuffles. You were right about that flank from the Shooters, and despite the “misplay” y’all handled that Orclings/Ax overhang correctly. As it turns out, the Orclings (who were killed) were in the flank, but the Ax were not:

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There’s 5mm of difference between the two Orc frontages, but this slides 2.5mm away from the larger frontage. Putting the Ax in the front, where they reformed to.

Also not a rules thing, but you had an alternate play in Turn 3:

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Shield warriors could have charged into the wavered Gore (almost assuredly killing them), and the CS2 warriors could front or maybe flank the Fight Wagons, using the power of 4E’s weird LOS tracing. Things turned out okish on this flank anyway (thanks to some luck holding), but it felt to me like this was a way to delay and abuse his traffic jam’d wagons a bit harder.

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73

Yeah, I don’t like the niche, and it is a shared niche, but it is a niche for the chariots. I liked how the previous edition had Phalanx and such better. Chariots are still in a weird spot.

Victrix has some good offerings now in plastic, and the Norman shields just look so cool. From a Kings of War / Kingdoms of Men perspective, I think one regiment of Knights with J-Boots is arguably best practice right now … but I think it is just a matter of time before someone figures out some better cavalry tactics and makes heavier cavalry play more attractive.

And yeah, wise advice with the Knights, and I just could not stick with a plan. Light melee Cavalry seem like much better instigators for Knights over infantry, as you don’t give up the speed, and Feint might be fun to use too. With Knights in the Core slot, one could do a very cavalry-heavy build for the Kingdoms of Men. I’ll see if I can try that out sometime.

Thank you @Boss_Salvage! I have struggled with applying Reform moves these last few games, but the larger unit grabbing more frontage initially is clicking for me. This situation was extra weird with my movement trays and that I am 95% sure he has based the Orclings on Heavy Infantry bases… Thank you for drawing that up!

Yeah, I was overwhelmed with what to do and how to approach the right. I mostly just lucked out into great results several times out here. :person_shrugging: I’m still not used to really checking line of sight this way, but oooo, that would have been a devious charge!

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74

NP! On the basing, a nice thing about the new frontage splitting is that you can mathematically know if a unit can wraparound or not, regardless of the minis involved as long as the charge was clean. Helpful in a world of overhanging weapons and the dreaded fat-fingered nudge!

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75

That’s what I have my eye on!
I usually get historical minuatures in 15mm, for which metal is fine, but I want 28mm models in plastic.

Normans seem like the minis will be useful in all sorts of games including fantasy. Especially if I get them a wizard and a giant.

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76

Hey all, two more reports done, and played with remains of the Varangur no less!

Battle 034 was against Goblins in Invade

I was up against a newer player here. I was transparent with what I was doing and why, and then we’d work together on their turn to fight back. The communication was great, but even with that going well, I ended up being a bit too try-hard here, which I regret.

Battle 035 was against the Kingdoms of Men in Protect and Raze

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the next game was against Rob as he prepares for US Masters. With their Auras becoming more limited Commands, his Halflings have not been as dominant, so he’s jumped ship over to his small Kingdoms of Men collection, featuring lots and lots and lots of gunpowder… Despite being the Varangur and the kind of more elite-style of list he was teching against, we are able to keep things relatively close against Rob, which felt good for me.

Both games were a lot of fun, and we all had a good time and came away with some stuff to learn from. For the Varangur:

  • Frostfang Cavaly could have a nice niche if folks are foregoing Spears/Phalanx like I have been inclined to do. They are very expensive, but Striding is still strong, and having CS2 on a cavalry unit is still great.
  • Fallen are still fun and neat, but these are also competing for a rare Support slot, and locked into the Varangur list. They aren’t a hammer, but are an ok generalist unit.
  • Ice Queens with Heal and Bane Chant were boring but strong. I forgot about Chilling Accuracy for their buffing spells (Elite), but they still impressed.

The army generally, and my collection specifically, are not in great places right now. I enjoy bringing them out, but unfortunately I think I am in a rough spot until their not-codex book comes out. And lastly, across the table there was plenty to learn from too:

  • The Goblin list is not optimized for anything, but is a great list for getting their feet wet. I think standardizing the deployment will help them learn things faster, but she’s already doing good basics for the Goblins like layering up. Looking forward to playing them again, and I am excited to have a Goblin army in the local group!
  • Rob’s Humans were bonkers. The game was super dynamic, but Cannons and Blizzard seem busted. The former feels like a typo to me, given all the extreme changes to the shooting phase, but time will tell. It’s a tough list, and I’m sure we’ll be seeing more of it in the coming months.
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77

An early lead snowballing like that is quite common in KoW and unfortunate against a new player. I agree that less aggressive armies are not as prone to this and therefore better for games vs new players.

That Kingdoms of Men army has quite the range of time periods and technology. :face_with_peeking_eye:
The minis look nice, though.

Cannons and blizzard look like an oversight, hopefully corrected soon.

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78

Yeah, Chariots side-by-side with a bunch of Rifles and Cannon give me a bit of an aneurysm, but Rob is a very talented painter. Everything is always so darn clean looking! The hodgepodge humans are not as endearing as the hungry hungry Halflings and all their farming equipment, but I think he’s looking into some kind of Star Fortress cutout for the new display board, which will be neat to see.

Yeah, right now with the former, it is almost like getting both a cannon and a breath weapon machine all in one, and they are just way too effective in-game. And speaking of, I have another report!

Battle 036 was a Kingdoms of Men civil war, with mine vs Rob’s in Pillage.

We had a few misplays, but recovered ok, and then while we tried a lot to stay in contention, unfortunately nothing worked out. It was always going to be tough; Rob is always playing hard for the win, and this IS Masters prep for him.

You can see the effectiveness of his list right now. That’s not a style I want to pursue or copy, but it was neat to see such a variety of units on the field, and there was a lot to learn.

  • Dogs of War are neat. Tons of hobbying opportunities, a few loadout options, and they should hold a variety of items pretty well. Def5 with the Hammer appeals to me too, though some cheap CS could be better, depending on your meta.
  • Mammoths had a rough time. The one that survived got their ideal target in several fights but it took them multiple turns to break through. They are not a hammer, and really need support, which makes their cost rather prohibitive. My opponent’s Giant fell into this category as well, and didn’t even beat a unit.
  • Light Cavalry were a lot of fun, and are decent chaff for the army, but need some thing supporting them to help keep the pressure on, so you are harassing with a purpose.
  • Foot Guard were fun, and I like the changes, and it was great to get all these old regiments out again, but they struggled as the backbone of my list. Having to pick between CS1 and Def5 is a real choice, and they couldn’t quite do the heavy lifting here that I was asking of them.
  • Our Champions are odd, and we’ve both been struggling a bit with this. Very Inspiring is nice, but we don’t really have any outstanding good options, and can’t default to spellcasters since ours do not Inspire. All our options want items for some increased utility, but no kit or hero has really gripped me yet.

It was a tough game, but still a good time! We’ll have some more Masters prep coming for Rob over the next month or so, but I’ll try to mix match-ups and opponents still, like usual.

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79

Nice to see the Regnum out again!
That shooting was rough, though.

A pity that more things didn’t bounce your way.

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80

Last weekend was busy in a good way! I got four games in, but because I was bouncing from army to army, we’ll post them here slightly out of order. The first batch of games was with the Undead, exploring the Barrow Wight warlord, and then trying to compare Wraiths and Zombie Trolls in our specialist slot:

Battle 037 was Undead with Zombie Trolls vs Trevor’s Kingdoms of Men in Seek and Destroy.
Battle 039 was Undead with spooky Wraiths vs Rob’s Kingdoms of Men in Dominate, for some Masters Practice.

Both lists were exploring Cannons and Blizzard.. Trevor had one Battalion while Rob iterated on his two-battalion approach for US Masters. We actually won both games! We definitely had some luck, but were able to play well, layer well, and snowball some early advantages, and Fearless definitely helped against all the shooting.

  • The Barrow Wight should really be a Barrow Wraith, given the abilities. He’s a combat Warlord, but with only 4 base attacks. He’s got Host Shadow Beast, but the spell is changed so that casting successes = Attacks now, so it’s not as powerful nor consistent as it was previously. His damage output was atrocious, but Def6 did some real work for me, and he tanked everything that came his way, which does count for something.
  • Trying to emulate the Ratkin a bit, I went wide, with all three of my Zombie hordes, and they did well in both games. We were able to cover a lot of space and tar pit things very well. They are a great core unit for the Undead!
  • Wraiths Troops are expensive! They are probably best-used alongside faster Warlords (wyrms, dragons, etc), who can more-easily keep them Inspired. They can pressure a bit, but the low Nerve is a big liability. They do fine, but are probably a little too expensive to use primarily for chaff in most cases, as that is a lot of points you are sending out to rout.
  • The Wraith Regiment was a little weird, but I’ve always had a soft spot for it. You are mostly paying for the extra Nerve, but it is worth it if you are looking for more of an anvil unit. We’ll try it out again sometime.
  • Zombie Trolls were beefy. With fewer attacks, they don’t have the damage output to quickly grind units down by themselves anymore, but with Lifeleech and such, they can be harder to remove now, and that is a plus with sticky combat these days. They and regular Zombies make for a tough front line to budge.

The Undead are in a weird spot. The unit Traits and army Orders aren’t fleshed out, and having Shambling and no extra pivots is tough when everyone else is marching freely at the double. The various changes to heroes are compounding things to make Surge really hard to use. Still, with a little luck, they can put out some good games!

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