The Brotherhood Split

Army lists and Tactics
21

Glad to read that you are happy with the changes!
I’m not sure where I stand as my UE book hasn’t been delivered yet, so my information is all 2nd-hand.

That said, mybrotherhood army (yes, I know, this army has been linked before. Here’s it again). was pretty feasible in 2nd edition and maybe not so much in 3rd edition due to an over-reliance on cavalry and monsters.

The main reaon why Brotherhood apealed to former Bretty players was due to the variety of cavalry that could be fielded. The 2nd ed. Brotherhood army had light cavalry, flying cavalry and 4 kinds of knights, ranging from the mediocre initiates to the superb order of redemption.

In the new edition it’s either light cavalry OR flying cavalry (depending on green lady or brothermark) and 2 kinds of knights. (paladin knights/abyssal hunt or order of the brotherhood/redemption). This consolidation, (or lack of variety as it’s also called) takes some time to getting used to. The real question is: what’s Brothermark’s unique playstyle compared to -say- Basilea, Rhordia or Kingdoms of Men.

As I don’t have the book I cannot answer this question at this moment. I doubt that I could answer the question without playing a few games anyhow. As I am trying my army as basilea for the time being, Brotherhood will have to wait a few months.

Maybe other Brotherhood players can answer this?

1 Like
22

I am struggling to convert some my old armies as well, just in terms of the figures matching up with the list. I think the new lists are just a little less generic, but overall I think the new lists are a great improvement from 2e, especially in terms of play balance. I was unsure if I should even bother trying to convert my Twilight Kin army as my three units of cold one knights and black dragon (the bulk of my army) were no longer in the list! However, I think it is just an adjustment, and we will have to be creative or bring allies until we get our armies sorted out and new stuff painted. That other game (WH) had the same problem, with each new edition many old figures lost their place in the list, but KoW still waaaay more flexible in terms of model choice and usage.

23

It seems to me that the main thrust of the split is that the elements of The Brotherhood that were more “mundane” like peasants, regular knights, etc went the way of Basilea with the Brothermark list, and the more mythical, more magical type stuff like Order of the Forsaken, Order of Redemption or Villein Martyrs went to the Green Lady.

The Order of the Brotherhood units, which are more like “mundane” knights went Green Lady but I suspect that was more to give a “regular” knight option to the Green Lady lists since the Brothermark list gives access to Basilean Paladin Knights.

You can work prettymuch any model from your old army into an Order of the Green Lady list except your artillery (though you can do that will allies), but there’s no simple analog to bring over the Order of the Forsaken into the Brothermark. Either way there’s no 100% solution.

That said, the only real “harm” here is that you can’t field 100% of your existing collection in a game anymore if you’re trying to field everything you’ve got. Since most of us own a lot more points than we play in any one game, it’s not a terrible hardship to switch back and forth depending on the opponent or what tactics you want to try. True, you won’t be fielding Forsaken supported by artillery without creative use of allies, but overall it’s an annoyance that isn’t army breaking.

24

It’s a bit of Thread-o-mancy, but since I had to wait for my Uncharted Empires book (it got lost in the mail) I couldn;t reply informed earlier.

I do like the Uncharted Empires theme lists for the armies that I play: League of Rhordia and Kingdoms of Men. I also do like the UE lists for several armies that I don’t play, such as free dwarves and Tkin. That said, I do not like the Order of the Brothermark theme list. I’ll try to explain here why.

The order of the Brothermark list seems not meaningful different from its main list - Basilea. I could literealy port over my Basliean army with only very minor changes (Lancers -> Skirmishers, Arbalest ->Siege artillery) without it playing differently.

My gut feeling (as I haven’t played Brothermark yet) is that it plays exactly the same as the Basilean list. The new additions (Slightly cheaper and more versatile bowmen, slightly better and more expensive knights, other light cavalry) fill the same roles as their Basilean counterparts. Indeed, the army loses one major tactical option - Elohi.

If you compare this to the League of Rhordia theme lists, the differences become apparent. The league list adds several very powerful tools to the parent list (war altar, honour guard) in exchange for other units. League plays differently that it’s parrent list, while Brothermark seems not to.

Furthermore, the inclusion of some very Basilean items such as the Phoenix and the Palace guard to the Brothermark list feel wrong. These models are one of the defining features of the parrent list, adding them to theme lists makes them more similar.

The order of the green lady does not suffer from this. The list (inclusion of heavy cavalry and heavy infantry to Forces of Nature) plays and feels different than the original.

How would I adress this?
Of course generating ideas for your own armies is usually easier and very dangerous for the internal balance of the system as a whole. Please read the below as a set of ideas, for the RC to use (or ignore) as they see fit.

a) lose the Phoenix and the ogre palace guard from the Brothermark army list. Maybe swtich the high paladin on elder dragon for a more brotherhood-themed guy with more or less the same stats.
b) Add the order of the forsaken (irregular) to the Brothermark as well as a light and medium flying hero to the army list. Exemplar on pegasus -comparable to KoM captain on pegasus and Exemplar on flying beast (comparable to kom general on flying beast). This would emphasis the Brotherhood army as an army of heroic individuals instead of ogres and firebirds.
c) return the villein initiate cavalry unit (Me 4+; 7/14 att; TC 2; def 5+; nerve 13/15 and 20/22) at a serious discount. This kind of unit (iniate knights aka kights errant) made the Brotherhood army special to me in V2; I’d like that returned for V3.