Trident Realms in 3.0

They were… pretty good, I think. Similar to the Trident King, they’re mostly in the list to shoot chaff - I REALLY want to be able to dictate engagements. Oddly, none of my opponents had any chaff, so they just got to apply a bit of ranged pressure. They usually put out about 3 wounds, which is very respectable, though I think the regiment size is much better: cost per attack goes from 15 to 16, but the nerve bump is really nice on a unit with regen 4+.

Ultimately I guess it was a series of bad matchups for both them and the Trident King, but I definitely mean to carry on using both.

Ok. Did my first tournament in 2019 with TR. 1650 point list.

I took:

Naiad Heartpiercers* (10) Troop [1 US, 120 pts]

Naiad Heartpiercers* (10) Troop [1 US, 120 pts]

Thuul (10) Troop [1 US, 105 pts]

Thuul (10) Troop [1 US, 105 pts]

Depth Horrors (06) Horde [3 US, 185 pts]

Gigas (06) Horde [3 US, 210 pts]: 05 - Healing Brew

Riverguard Dambusters (06) Horde [3 US, 275 pts]: 15 - Blood of the Old King

Knucker [1 US, 150 pts]

Siren [130 pts]: Heal (6), Enthral (5)

Eckter [1] [165 pts]

Naiad Envoy [100 pts]: 25 - Lute of Insatiable Darkness, Bastion (2) [1]

Created with BattleScribe

Or Maby Envoy did not have Fury (I might have given Poison Frogs to DBs, Sharpness to DH and Staying Stone to Gigas).

Anyway.

Heartpiercers did a very nice job. Steady aim and P(1) is great. It helps vs Flyers and faster lists as it suts preasure on the opponent. No easy Heal is also a thing as this chip damage can not be easly removed.

Thuul - they were a replacement for Placoderm I do not have painted yet. They would have beed better with BC in the list but were ok.

Depth Horrors - as good as always. I met only few LB and war engines and they were shooting other targets so DH were doing very well.

Gigas - TR lost all High CS units. Knuckers are not that impetous, Gigas are not so impetous either but Vicious helps. Goos unit. Anvil with a punch.

Dambusters - I wanted to take them as I have a painted horde but it was a mistake. 2nd DH horde and upgraded Thuul troop to a regiment with Sharpness would be way better (those 16,67 hits per round!) Sadly. They did poorly. Big footprint makes Fly at the double difficult (due to terrain) and 7,5 wounds a turn was not impressive. They were just super expensive for what they had to offer (and maby points were not high enough to justify a 300 point unit in my list).

Eckter - he was fine. Another shooting unit. Nice offence.
Envoy - cheap inspiring with Bastion
Siren - she does not inspire. A 130+ point hero that cast 1 spell a turn. Pre-CoK 2019 siren really but weaker.

In general TR lost a lot of Ensnare here and there. Some punch and got more expensive (which is wierd for a medium Tier army). There is still hope in a MSU lists as there are no real hammers in this army. AT ALL. So grind id the only way to go (I hope Change my mind).

In retrospect I should have taken something like this:

Naiad Heartpiercers* (10) Troop [1 US, 120 pts]

Naiad Heartpiercers* (10) Troop [1 US, 120 pts]

Thuul (10) Troop [1 US, 105 pts]

Thuul (20) Regiment [3 US, 195 pts]: 35 - Brew of Sharpness

Depth Horrors (06) Horde [3 US, 185 pts]

Gigas (06) Horde [3 US, 205 pts]

Knucker [1 US, 150 pts]

Eckter [1] [165 pts]

Naiad Envoy [75 pts]: Bastion (2) [1]

Siren [130 pts]: 30 - Shroud of the Saint, Heal (3)

Created with BattleScribe

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After a longer FB debate about TR lists (for Masters) I have decided to give Dambuster regiments a chance. I have a constant feeling that TR require smaller, flanking units to make the main line units work. Elementals would be a natural choice as they can charge in a shooting phase and pushing/pulling is possible in TR but this type of support is not cheap.

Second options for this type of support are TR jumpers. Jumpers are medium range flyers that can jump over our own troops. We have 2 reasonable choices. Treeleapers and Dambusters. I would skip on regular riverguard. Higher cost, lower nerve, no CS and Me of 5+ makes them a bad choice in general. Dambusters and Treeleapers are different hight which is very important as H4 can see over almost everything while Treeleapers’ H2 can be blocked unless they target H3+ units but they can serve a similar role in my opinion. They can wait behind our main line and combo-charge or hunt for flanks when their time comes. I would say Dambuster Sentinel can do that as well. He is less punchy but with CS2 instead of 1 and a bit better Enthral if anyone cares about Entrhal.

Problem is this type of list requires at least several smaller units (MSU) to layer units up. TR is not cheap and have problems with unlocking things so we can not avoid few hordes but it is doable.

This is a list I have came up with:

++ [3E Primary, 0-1495 Roster pts] ([Neutral] The Trident Realm of Neritica) ++

+ INF +

Naiad Heartpiercers* (10) Troop

Naiad Heartpiercers* (10) Troop

+ HVY INF +

Placoderms (10) Troop

Placoderms (10) Troop

+ SWA +

Nokken* (03) Regiment

+ LRG INF +

Depth Horrors (06) Horde

Depth Horrors (06) Horde

+ MON INF +

Gigas (06) Horde: 05 - Staying Stone

Gigas (06) Horde: 05 - Blade of Slashing

+ LRG CAV +

Riverguard Dambusters (03) Regiment: Poison Frog

+ MON: You MUST Manually Validate Unlocks +

Knucker

+ HERO: You MUST Manually Validate Unlocks +

Eckter [1]

Naiad Envoy: Bastion (2) [1], Horn of Ocean’s Fury [1]

Siren: 10 - Conjurer’s Staff, Drain Life (6), Weakness (2)

Trident King [1]

Created with BattleScribe

There is way more shooting than I usually play but I see no other way to get a small CC advantage than by chipping few wounds here and there before first engagement. What do You think about it?

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I’m headed into my first tournament of the new edition this weekend, and frankly I don’t expect to do well. I concluded in last night’s practice match that my TR are pretty much a bunch of mid-weight anvils without enough hammers to get anything done - this goes for the kraken as well, which is just a weirdly fast anvil. Or maybe an anvil who can hammer a flank if he spots one.

Anyway, I agree that the answer is somehow to get enough hammers to go with your anvils, and that you have to do combined arms / hammer + anvil because alpha isn’t an option and I don’t really think all the control abilities in the faction work out in game (pushing + pulling + etc).

On the whole, your list looks good? 2+ depth horror hordes, 2 gigas hordes, 1+ knuckers, 1 Eckter, 1 bastion envoy is looking like the starting point for TR right now. The placo troops and nokken are interesting in addition to the toads. If this list is really just 1500 points, I think it might have the tools at that power level. I don’t know that it scales to 2000/2300 well.

2 Likes

The last list is a 2250 list. 15 drops.

I have to agree that we have a lot od anvils but have no tools to deal damage except for DH maby. Sadly I have no BC on that list as Fury aura can not be used with items… I get that +3" is nice but nit that nice to limit this aura… Well. What do I know. This makes cs2 Horrors a difficult to get.

My answer to the no hammer part is to use smaller units and search for flanks but this requires more skill than most armies to pilot.

I find all the limits on the sacred horn to be a bit much, and mostly just keeps heroes with auras from taking a second support item. But maybe that was the real point of all those item restrictions?

And gotcha on army size, saw the size not at the top and was confused!

There are a few things I don’t like.

  • Knuckers are the strikers that tip fights in my favour most of the time, so I have to recommend taking your full allowance.
  • You’re not using all your unlocks, and you probably should be. If you truly don’t want to take more monsters, I’d combine the Placoderms into one regiment and split one horde of Depth Horrors into two regiments - Depth Horror Regiments have amazing stats for the cost.
  • I like Heartpiercers in regiments more than troops, because they pay surprisingly few points for the extra nerve - 120pts for 8 dice is 15pts per shot, so 160pts is 150 for the dice, and only 10 for a large nerve bump, which is especially relevant for a unit that regenerates. Also, the Piercing Arrow is a surprisingly efficient item: average damage against def5 goes from 2.5 to 3, a 20% increase for only 10pts.
  • Nokken are interesting, and I’d love to hear about your experience using them, but Tidal Swarm are insanely good. Deploy them behind your hordes, scout them ahead, screen insanely well. -/12 Ensnare for 70pts is incredible, they survive a charge quite frequently. Essential for the control game I play.
  • I don’t understand the Dambuster regiment. The horde is an ok hammer that can be a good hammer with Sharpness, but the regiment is expensive, can’t pivot on the spot as well, still has the huge frontage, and doesn’t do much damage. I’m just not sure what role it can possibly fill - for quick flankers, I think you want more Knuckers, or maybe Depth Horror Eternals.
  • I think the Horn of Ocean’s Fury is a waste in this list. It just occasionally lets your Heartpiercers and Placoderms countercharge, which is pretty weak. I’ve also been running Eckter and the Trident King lately, so I’ve stopped taking Envoys. Would be great in a list with lots of Thuul troops, I think.
  • I really like that Siren build, but I think it’s too expensive in a list without Surge and Water Elementals. A local runs two Aquamages with Icy Breath and Weakness in a list with four Placoderm regiments, and he swears by them.

+1 Knucker is a good option, I agree. 3 - never used 3. Have to wait for Mantic models to be out!

I do not feel I have to use unlocks to the maximum. I already have 4 heroes which takes all hero slots avaliable but maxing out on other units just because I can - it has to have a point other than maxing out.

Heartpiercers - the idea is to get maximum Attack volume. I could take them as a regiment too.

Nokken are to support Heartpiercers and chaff but TS are as good.

Dambusters in regiment are a flanker. The idea is to either multi-charge or flank from behind of i.e. placoderm.

Envoy - fury with placoderm is great. I also consider dropping an envoy and go Eternal OR give him Bastion and Lute.

Siren is a healer/weakness caster and weakness is what helps this lit a lot.

Decided I have painted WEs and GWEs for a reason and built a list I have played yesterday. My first observation - water support is expensive. Like A LOT of points. I also have to work on getting flanks a bit more (got one with nimble WEs with a classic Withdrawal, 3,5 to the side, pivot, surge move). Regen on Elementals works as long as I keep casting Weakness/Drain life. 14"-15" charge range is very nice.

This is not very punchy list. I missed breaking Brocks with DHs and Dambuster multi-charge twice !

I miss some shooting. Would love to take a King or replace Treeleapers (as they do the same job as Dambusters) with i.e. Nokken but not sure how to get points.

I might even drop a Knucker and riverguard take 2(!) Nokken hordes.

Any ideas?

2020 pts

Riverguard Treeleapers (10) Troop [1 US, 110 pts]

Depth Horrors (06) Horde [3 US, 185 pts]

Depth Horrors (06) Horde [3 US, 185 pts]

Water Elementals (06) Horde [3 US, 260 pts]: 40 - Wine of Elvenkind

Riverguard Dambusters (03) Regiment [2 US, 155 pts]

Riverguard Dambusters (03) Regiment [2 US, 155 pts]

Greater Water Elemental [1 US, 180 pts]

Greater Water Elemental [1 US, 180 pts]

Knucker [1 US, 150 pts]

Eckter [1] [165 pts]

Siren [135 pts]: 10 - Conjurer’s Staff, Drain Life (6), Weakness (2)

Thuul Aquamage [160 pts]: 40 - Wings of Honeymaze (Individual), Rising Tides [1], Surge (8), sub, Weakness (2)

As someone playing against trident realms, I have to say, Knuckers are the most annoying unit in the list, cheap enough to take quite a few of them, and it gets really difficult to cover flanks against all possibilities late game, especially when multiple units are set up in a way that limits where you can move without taking a flank charge.

2 Likes

Knuckers are nice tools. They do very little damage but can take a counter with CS1 and ensnare and either re-position or strike again.

BTW

Tested another surge version of a 2020 list:

Nokken* (06) Horde [1 US, 130 pts]

Depth Horrors (06) Horde [3 US, 185 pts]
Depth Horrors (06) Horde [3 US, 185 pts]

Water Elementals (06) Horde [3 US, 260 pts]: 40 - Wine of Elvenkind
Water Elementals (06) Horde [3 US, 220 pts]

+ LRG CAV +

Riverguard Dambusters (03) Regiment [2 US, 155 pts]
Riverguard Dambusters (03) Regiment [2 US, 155 pts]

+ MON: You MUST Manually Validate Unlocks +

Greater Water Elemental [1 US, 180 pts]
Greater Water Elemental [1 US, 180 pts]

Eckter [1] [165 pts]
Naiad Envoy [75 pts]: 20 - Tome of Darkness
Thuul Aquamage [130 pts]: 10 - Conjurer’s Staff, Rising Tides [1], Surge (8), sub, Weakness (2)

Scenario: Kill (unfortunate for me). I did some weird deployment choices but this was a test game to learn how this army should deploy. And I have learned a lot from it too. I miss 2nd Weakness but cheap surge (4) is a good replacement.

I have no idea why people did not like cannons when they came out. They are AMAZING. Sitting behind infantry, popping lead at anything H3+ hey can see :smiley: They did some serious damage tun I and II to my depth horrors. 10 wounds each is a lot and most combat was done by elementals. I was unclucky with cannon rolling to hit (50%+) and had some bad combats where berserker regiment with a lord took out WE horde in one round in the middle but it was a good game.

Ended up in a 10:10 tie so nothing to complain about.

What I have to manage better is indivudual placement (surge range, aura radius etc.). Boots of Levitation would be awesome on an Aquamage but there are no points for them.

Nokken will replace heartpierces as my shooting support even outside surge lists. They are great on defence and does better damage than heartpiercers at 12".

DEPLOYMENT

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Coincidentally, I’m looking at doing 2x water elemental hordes in the next version of my Trident as well. Really don’t like the aquamage but Rising Tides is a thing …

Nice to hear some success with / data on nokken, I dig 'em but never hear anybody taking them. Love ember sprites from Salamanders, figure they’re fairly similar.

I am using Tortured Souls as nokken. They will be great when painted blue. With light flames!

Aquamage is great. Fiarly cheap, with Weakness and great aura. I would love to replace envoy with second one. With Weakness ans surge.

Nokken are chaff. Hard to break when in terrain. 14 shots is better than 8 from Heartpiercers too. Sure the range is shorter but the whole Surge is a close range thing anyway.

Sprites are similar. No regen but vicious and scout. Scout would be great but regen is a solid tool.

I keep playing lately Water Elementals as an army theme and I must say they are some issues with that theme (which should be ICONIC in TR).

I will start from pros:

  • Elementals are relatively fast. SP7 and Rushing Tides is a solid combination. This gives some adventage over most infantry.

  • They do regenerate. 5+ is not great. It happens not to regenerate a single wound from 3-4 wounded units but if I can control the ammount of damage WE take they can survive longer.

  • Surge as a tool allows more charge angels.
    Nokken are a very nice unit. I wish I had points for 2 hordes!

Cons:

  • Elementals hits like butterflies. I have 1-2 situations a game when I have a GWE to the front and WE to the flank (vs def 5+, 114/16, 15/17 unit) and I am unable to even waver it in one round of combat. i.e. WE break an ogre horde charges to the flank on 8+ (on average) which is painful.
  • WE relly on Weakness as “chaff”. I would love to have 2 Weakness casters in a list but even 1 helps. Most Cav units use Sir Jessie Boots to ignore terrain so weakness is the only way to slow them down. Dagons are a bigger problem as they have CS3+
  • WE theme is very expensive and require cheap main like units. We have only DHs to choose from. I do like DH anyway (but I need Mantic models!).
  • I try to use Dambuster regiments as WE support. (Enthral (of “3”) can help sometimes) and it looks nice on paper but it is so hard to pull off… I have 7 regenerating units in my list (GWE, WE, Nokken and dambusters) but 6+ is super situational and hard to rely on.

Conclusion:

  • WE theme is very expensive. I usually have less CS, less nerve, less US and less speed than my opponents (and I never have drop advantage due to high cost). WE are not punchy at all and there is a constant dilemma between 2 surge casters, weakness and maby a BC source. Again - high costs.
  • I hope Tier 2 on Aquamages will kick in.
  • Enthral should be better. Siren is an option but is very expensive with Weakness and Drain Life (another needed tool) and she does not Inspire. AGAIN.
  • Whole water theme is based on Casters, Unit placement and SKILL synergy. This is a hard combination to pull and it cost a lot. KoW does not change costs of units which makes rulebooks valid for the duration of the whole edition. This is great. That is why I expect either 1. more thematic WATER spells, 2. more Waterbound syneriges.

My latest list is this one. I need some more shooting it this list really. Another Nokken horde would be good option (instead of 1 WE horde). I could replace Eckter with King for some speed and more shooting.

2020, MiSiO|293x500

1 Like

The latest idea looks like this:

  • Nokken horde,

  • Nokken horde,

  • Depth Horror horde,

  • Depth Horror horde,

  • Water Elemental horde /w Nimble,

  • Riverguard dambuster regiment,

  • Riverguard Dambuster regiment,

  • Greater Water Elemental,

  • Greater Water elemental,

  • Aquamage w/ Rushing Tides [1], Surge(8), Weakness(2), Staff

  • Naiad Envoy Lute/Tome, Bastion[1]

  • Trident King

This list have more shooting and more regeneration. There is an option to take either Lute or Surge (4). I like both choices.

1 Like

I dig the new list, experimental stuff with a strong spine of horrors. I appreciate the WE analysis above, it’s certainly relevant to where I’m headed. I’m surprised you rate GWE as highly? Tho I’ve no experience with them at all. Guessing it’s that 50mm = easy surge flanks magic.

Well… GWE are like the rest of the army. Grindy. Problem starts when we surge them (or regular elementals for that matter) to enemy flanks. Me 4+, CS1 or CS2 with low number of attacks means we pay a lot for little extra damage.

GWE surges into flank vs DEF 5+ deals ~2,67 additional wounds than to the front. This is not much for a 180+caster investment. 5,34 wounds a flank is only OK.

50mm base is great for some close combat tricks but as I said before. Catching flanks does not change much. But I will play them for few months to see how to use them the best possible way and what would be a solution to potential drawbacks.

I also think GWE are AMAZING models and we should use them more often just for that reason.

2 Likes

Had a 2nd UB2 tournament game today. Against elven alpha strike.

  • Horde of Palaceguard, sharpness

  • Seaguard regiment,

  • 2x Stormwind Cav regiments,

  • 2x Draconrider hordes,

  • 2x elven prince, one with duellist, mounted

  • 2x elven mage, heal(4/7), BC, one mounted

The idea is to hit hard with Cav and flyers and then kill what is left with palaceguard (heal heals a lot to survive shooting/counter-damage).

I was using the same list as before (not the one with 2x Nokken as we were not allowed to change lists during between games). We played Pillage. Elves chose North side of the table. Shots are from turn 2 onwards.

Things that did not change:
Elementals unable to break most def 5 units in a combined flank+front charge in a turn. Never assume they will! The only exception was when I broke a Dracon horde on my right in one go. Delt like 10 wounds and rolled high enough (WE to the flank, GWE to the front). Except this one charge I did not break Cav regiment with Eckter to the front and WE to the flank in one turn. I also did only 4 damage to another Dracon horde with Dambusters to the flank and GWE to the front. It was painful vs all those healing power of the elven army. Luckly after 3 turn I was able to break those dracons when dambuster regiment hit to the front and hit 7/9 rolls. I needed that to “fix” the left flank dice.

Weakness is BIG in that list. Weakened dracons - elementals can take those to the face any time!

Envoy with Tome… I think I need BC more. BC and Bastion seems great options.

What in missed:
Well… More shooting. That is why I consider replacing one WE horde with Nokken. Not sure how to spend those 80 points I have left but I can replace Eckter with King (another grindy tool but with P(1) shooting!) or leave Eckter in the list and… Not sure. Have few options. Even HP regiment is being taken into consideration.

A: +Nokken, +King, -WE, -Eckter.
B: +DH horde, -WE, +Lute&Bastion instead of Tome

1 Like

I have played the last game of our small UB2 tournament. On the TOP table!

It was a game against Undead built around zombies, zombie trolls and Goreblights (all with vicious from necromancers). We were playing Salt the Earth scenario. Interesting part was that we did not burn a single token as we were hoping to get control over them or were not in range. I was hoping to start the game with dambusters on the left to move 14" and pivot to burn far left token but Undead took the first turn so I had to reposition.

I was able to catch few flanks this game due to unexpected +1 charge range running Aquamage provided (my first charges of the game). Undead were unable to one-shot my units as his charges were single charges or hindered charges. I did a good job regenerating and grinding.

WE proved to be a bit swingy as always. I did take a legion of zombies from a combined charge from a horde (flank) and a GWE but was unable to take one legion out in one go from the rear charge with 54 attacks. It costed me a regiment of dambusters. Sadly. I should have front charged with them as well. To be sure.

This was also the first game where I used both surge casters. I had to withdrawal a GWE from the combat with a Goreglight and side step him to make room for a WE horde to be surged into a Goreblight. I then surged GWE back to the fight and took pesky monster down… in 2 turns :slight_smile:

The game ended with massive TR victory. I have lost only 3 units and almost cleared the board. 1 Necromancer fled the field alive and one Gorblight was hiding in the woods.

I still feel I need another Nokken horde for some short range shooting. I also like BC more than I like 2nd surge but I am not sure if replacing a WE horde with nokken and a better caster is the good way to do it.

4 Likes

So if you won on the top table, does that mean you won the whole UB tournament? :neutral_face:

1 Like