Did the math (still waiting for 2 tables to play as we have a 2-3 days per round) and it looks like that is the case. I think I have 1 point more than next player can get if he take a 20:0 victory.
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Congratulations on the victory anyway - and on winning the tourney if it turns out you came top (as seems likely). There seems to be more hate than love out there for TR in 3rd edition, so winning a tourney with a list that isnât just Depth Horror spam is quite an achievement!
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I guess I have surprised everyone with my list.
I would say there is a good reason why people complain. We are almost there with TR list but there is always something missing. I love the direction 3.o changes took but I am disappointed with execution. Or rather⌠Lack of confidence in changes they did. That is why there is so many over-costed things. Like author were afraid they did too much and wanted to balance out those changes.
Dambusters and enthral are a Good examples. I have 2 regiments. And I have used their Enthral ONCE. Shot zombies to deal 2 damage. It is so random and so unreliable I do not even plan around it. I might open a flank one day with it but it is not a âpart of the planâ. Charging with them is almost always better than rolling 3 dice.
Same with their regen. 6+ on a 12/14 is⌠Fun. Unexpected bonus that happens sometimes.
DH are solid unit. Best unlocking unit we have (which is a BIG part of their success). We have one expensive unlocking infantry horde and most regiments does not unlock. We are left with infantry hordes. Elementals are unpopular for a reason. Gigas require a specific build. We are left with horrors. They unlock and deal damage which is not something we can ignore. They are not OP, they are just the best what we have.
I would love to try my list (the one I play recently) with Thuul instead of DHs but⌠I can not unlock 2 monsters and 3 supporting heroes. So a Mythican caster supporting Water theme is just to hard to use.
2 Likes
I am not really playing TR at the moment, but I have had one or two friendly games and have come up with a different take on a 2K list. I am not adding new models to the army, so am limited to units that I have already assembled, painted and was using in 2nd edition (I first took TR to Clash of Kings UK in 2017).
My version goes like this:
Ensnarers horde, Hammer of Measured Force
Ensnarers horde, Brew of Strength
Treeleapers troop, Poison Frog
Treeleapers troop, Poison Frog
Tidal Swarm regiment
Tidal Swarm regiment
Tidal Swarm regiment
Depth Horrors horde
Depth Horrors horde
Knucker
Knucker
Depth Horror Eternal
Naiad Envoy, Bastion, Horn of Oceanâs Fury
Eckter
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I think you have hit the nail on the head here. The changes in 3rd ed is overall good, I think. It just needs a bit of refinement.
I love your army btw, actually really keen to try that list out myself. I looked at it and thought to myself, I should try elemental + thuul list, seems like some nice synergies between them. Didnât really think of the unlocking issues it might cause.
Oh and congratulations on your victory! Even if by some miracle (or disaster, I suppose) you donât end on top, ending second is still a major achievement, and the fact that you are there without DH spam just make is all the sweeter.
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Elementals should so a thing in TR, this is water army after all. I will try to weak it toward thuul+WE. Will post it when I came up with how to tweak that I play right now.
Unlocks is a big thing in TR. Cheapest unlocks are Thuul and Naiad regiments. Naiads are bad in regs so Thuul are the cheapest but their unlocks are limited. Naiad hordes are the only infantry âfull unlockâ option but they are not cheap. So⌠Yeah.
Ok thuul version.
+ INF +
Thuul (20) Regiment [3 US, 160 pts]
Thuul (20) Regiment [3 US, 165 pts]: 05 - Staying Stone
Thuul (20) Regiment [3 US, 180 pts]: 20 - Hammer of Measured Force
+ SWA +
Nokken* (06) Horde [1 US, 130 pts]
+ LRG INF +
Water Elementals (06) Horde [3 US, 260 pts]: 40 - Wine of Elvenkind
+ LRG CAV +
Riverguard Dambusters (03) Regiment [2 US, 160 pts]: Poison Frog
Riverguard Dambusters (03) Regiment [2 US, 155 pts]
+ MON: You MUST Manually Validate Unlocks +
Greater Water Elemental [1 US, 180 pts]
Greater Water Elemental [1 US, 180 pts]
+ HERO: You MUST Manually Validate Unlocks +
Eckter [1] [165 pts]
Thuul Aquamage [135 pts]: 15 - Sacred Horn, Rising Tides [1], Surge (8), sub, Weakness (2)
Thuul Mythican [130 pts]: 10 - Conjurerâs Staff, Bane Chant (2), Surge (6)
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Ok. Another UB2 tournament on a horizon. 2300 points.
I would like to continue the WE theme list by adding 2 missing pieces. 2nd Weakness and a BC spell. First comes from a Siren (with a Drain Life and Stuff to buff her Enthral and Drain Life to (6) and (7) and to make Weakness more likely to hit). Bane Chant is from an Envoy as I would need 3 inspiring sources to cover most of my list (which seems to be important in a grindy list like this) and only envoys could help with that.
I have also added some more shooting as I believe 2 Nokken (or a Nokken and Trident King) with 25-30 shots a turn can deal a lot of damage and open enemy lines easier than a single horde. Aquamage got a Horn as I find WC aura very helpful in several situations and
- SWARMS
Nokken* (06) Horde [1 US, 130 pts]
Nokken* (06) Horde [1 US, 130 pts]
- LARGE INF
Depth Horrors (06) Horde [3 US, 185 pts]
Depth Horrors (06) Horde [3 US, 185 pts]
Water Elementals (06) Horde [3 US, 260 pts]: 40 - Wine of Elvenkind
Water Elementals (06) Horde [3 US, 225 pts]: 05 - Healing Brew
- LARGE CAV
Riverguard Dambusters (03) Regiment [2 US, 155 pts]
Riverguard Dambusters (03) Regiment [2 US, 155 pts]
- MONSTERS
Greater Water Elemental [1 US, 180 pts]
Greater Water Elemental [1 US, 180 pts]
- HEROES
Eckter [1] [165 pts]
Naiad Envoy [80 pts]: 25 - Lute of Insatiable Darkness
Siren [135 pts]: 10 - Conjurerâs Staff, Drain Life (6), Weakness (2)
Thuul Aquamage [135 pts]: 15 - Sacred Horn, Rising Tides [1], Surge (8), sub, Weakness (2)
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Another round of test games resulted in few colclusions:
- Flyers are a problem,
- Weakness works as chaff to a certain point,
This is why I experimented with several hero choices and decided I need King instead on 2nd Nokken horde and a BC envoy. Loosing BC is painful but King is one of few tools we have against dragons/flyers. King provides even better shooting than Nokken and can, if needed, be chaff like Kraken.
I was considering 2nd Aquamage (BC from Lute/ Surge), Mythican (BC, Surge) but Weakness is more important even than second Surge. And really 1 surge caster in enough in close combat when there is something else to deal with flyers.
Sadly Eckter is not enough to deal with dragons. My dice were bad last few games with him, true, but still. Repositioning him is just to difficult.
Now my list looks like this:
-
Nokken horde,
-
Depth Horrors horde,
-
Depth Horrors horde,
-
Water Elementals, Wine of Elvenkind,
-
Water Elementals,
-
Greater Water elemental,
-
Greater Water elemental,
-
Siren, Weakness, Drain Life, Staff
-
Aquamage, Weakness, Surge (8), Rushing Tides [1]
-
Eckter
-
Trident King
2 Likes
Today some pictures of my finished dambuster regiments.
Also CoK 2020 is out. With some double nerfs to Depth Horrors and aHeartpiercersâ buff.
epth Horrow are nor 16/18 Fury which makes them THE worst large infantry there is when fielded against any shooting. their CC did not change. In addition we got shooting buffs all over the place in form of regular shooting units. Gladestalkers, heartpierces. Every time I play vs even small support shooting DH got their deapsea butts kicked.
How does it affect Your lists? I was using 1-2 DH hordes myself but more I play 3.0 the more high defence seems to be better choice over ensnare. Ensnare is less effective as most units lost CS and unit like Depth Horros pays off mostly vs CS2+ units (especially vs Me of 4+) we do not have that many.
It seems like out Army Special Rule is no longer âarmyâ. Only few units left has it and those who do have roles that not always make Ensnare work for them. Well⌠Whatever. Nevermind.
It turned out WEs is the unit I use the most as a main battle line unit. DHs are super situational now so we are left with only few other choices. I keep playing a grindy TR list with WEs, heal and weakness but this time I decided to add some more frogs. Dambuster regs and teeleapers are very nice support pieces I hope will work in a new meta. More shooting forced me to take 2 knuckers (I can not wait to get Mantic knucker!)
Almost forgot about HPs. I think they will see more play as TR lost itâs best unlocking tool. Horrors. 1-2 regiments of even troops (if You do not fear LB spam) can deal very respected amount of damage from their 4+, piercing 1 shots. Almost like an elven horde with piercing item in 2.0. 320 points for 20 4+, piercing shots. I hope to test them soon.
What is Your opinion about new CoK changes?
8 Likes
Glorious Dambusters!
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Dambusters are beautiful! Bases included.
I havenât actually heard about any changes that affect my armies, and my LGS wonât be getting its copies until ⌠end of the month? I didnât run Depth Horrors (too popular) but wow, they lost Fearless?? Ouch. As far as Heartpiercers, at the end of 2.0 I built my army with 4x regiments of them, and then they had their COK19 buffs rolled back and I was left with a lot of points in non-unlocking, ok shooters who werenât great at much else. My favorite / best games with the army in 3.0 have been those were the HP were on fire or got to serve the tactical roles I designed the army for - in COK19 they had Ensare, letting them tarpit, they had Pathfinder, granting increased mobility for objectives, and 12 attaks meant they could flank meaningfully when needed.
SO Iâm chuffed to hear they got upgraded! Itâs a bit strange to see shooting buffed across the game, but I can see Mantic trying to break the stranglehold of lightning spam by diversifying ranged options, at the very least. It does seem to drive us back to the old D5-6 + healing meta of 2.0
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Stunning paintjob and a beautiful base, thanks for sharing!
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The frogs are wonderful - the unit itself looks like it might need finesse to use well (which rule me out!)
Iâm still not getting any games in because of covid concerns, but I think itâs safe to say that Depth Horrors are still a good unit. They still do the best damage for their cost against def 5, theyâre still outlandishly tough in close combat, and theyâre still our cheap unlock, itâs just that their weakness to shooting is more pronounced now. I will probably still bring one horde in every army I build, but I will probably need to be more careful with deployment and cover. Armies that relief on them heavily will have more bad matchups.
Heartpiercers going regular is incredible. Iâve been taking a unit (it usually starts as a regiment and gets bumped to a troop when Iâm looking for points) for a while, and its chip damage to def 5 especially has been super helpful. I canât imagine taking more than two of them, but it sure opens up options for builds.
DHs do 6 damage to def 5 units. Gigas does 6,22 but cost a bit more . Problem is their value rapidly diminish when opponent has any shooting. LB is a great example. Their CC value is gone when You have 5-8 wounds on them. Sadly this is our best unlock option. And TR is an army with like 3 universal inspiring sources (2 LL) so it is hard to take a mix of untis like WEs, gigas/horrors as each of them requires a hero support.
I also consider 1-2 regiments or troops of HPs. Their do a lot of damage.
WHOA I didnât get that that was happening!! My army builds just opened waaaaay up, as Iâve been starved for unlocks in 3.0 since they went irregular (been using gigas + elementals, which are great but expensive points-wise)
3 Likes
The most significant part of the change is that DH can be wavered by shooting. Previously, doing 8-10 damage to them was not a big danger if theyâre inspired, now itâs quite likely to mess them up. They were always vulnerable to light fire softening them up for a charge, now theyâre distinctly weaker to concentrated shooting. Remains to be seen whether that will be common, but I still think you could take the two hordes and an eternal package without being hard countered. Probably worth bringing some tidal swarm to screen them, though.
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Using swarms to screen adds to DH cost and makes them expensive. We will face more Infantry shooting. Gladestalkers for example.
HP are not very efficient unlocks but this is a good option. Best part of them besides shooting is regen. It will not be easy to chip damage and kill them.
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Yep, which I happen to believe is exactly as it should be - 185pts is still a very aggressive price tag for a unit which can be so powerful. I look forward to a meta filled with weird 4+ shooting units where Depth Horrors are bad, then I can start claiming Gigas are overpowered 