Most DH efficeiency came from the ability to limit damage output of hight CS units. Units bouncing off ensnare and CS3 etc was not paying off vs no armour. Problem in 3.0 is that most units are no longer CS 3. Even not CS2. And when You have a CS2 unit it works as good as vs def 5 but no ensnare unit. Not to mention gigas.
If we add more 4+ shooting and constant LB spam to support it (25 shot orge or NS lists or 18ish elven lists) then we have a unit we do not want to have… Unless You have like 6 of them and can take some damage on the way there.
Oh. Forgot. New hero can be a solution to shooting a bit. Scout and good malee stats and he inspired thuul/kraken and waterbound at the same time).
How often do you play against such armies and how often do they cause you a serious problem. My impression is that shooting is not a problem in 3ed, maybe the war engines with Ignore Cover are good but they got a slight nerf now. I just checked the DH profile and it seems obvious to me that they were very good for their points (and most likely remain so), the same can be said about Revenant cavalry, so it is not surpising that such units were tuned down a bit in CoK2021.
I was lucky to play 2/3 games vs LB spam last tournament. It does cost a lotbut when my main lise has limited number of units it is hard. Luckly I was not playing vs 18LB+20ish 4+ shots elven list with 3 palance guard hordes to back it up.
Rev cav but point increase. I would say this was expected. DH got nerfed (they were like this in 2.0 but no fury and were labeled “unplayable” :P) becuase they were being spammed. Which is so wierd to me as TR is such a interesting army to play with. Anyway. I get that spamm lists is what RC is against so this is understandable.
DH are closest to Ogre hordes. 15 cheaper. 2 less armour but ensnare. No brutal but fury. I think they are ok but their balance is shifted by a lot. I wonder how it turns out. Luckly I
Anyway. CoK is out. I was shifting away from using 2 hordes of DH anyway. This is my recent list idea (2 versions). And an evolution of a list I use since 3.o came out.
I think I like the version with the GWE better, but I’d be temped to get another Surge in that version. I think both would also be better with Eckter instead of the Siren, but I respect wanting to play with Enthral.
I do not really care about Enthrall on siren. She is there to heal and weaken enemy units. (5) is not high enough to make It work. Dambusters will not add to the trick really. Maby It I had Dambuster Sentinel…
Well… Eckter is ok but I do not want him on every list. He is expensive and his best ability is windblast which I replaced with king’s Breath.
I think I like GWEe better but there is no way to get another surge if I want an option to heal. I could replace Siren with Aquamage no 2 with Weakness and surge and Icy Breath. Not a bad idea. With Shroud of the Saint.
What do You think about It? Coral Giant od GWE? Giant, GWE and a Kraken are all an interesting grind monster. 2 regen and one iron resolve. It seems like a Giant is less durable over time but his high def is a good protection when engaged. Other too can shake off shooting damage easier. Coral is more durable Kraken when in CC. And he hits harder.
think I need a motivation to paint and convert Mantic a Giant… I could fit one into the list too…
I like the Coral Giant but the Kraken offers so much more. Giant should have Fury imo. I am trying to build a list with a Kraken and GWE and Naiads / Water Elementals for unlocks but i’m struggling to justify a GWE as its damage output is just not enough even if you can get a flank.
Unless I’ve missed something the Kraken has the same amount of inspiring as the Giant and GWE, they all have 6 in the current list.
I do think that the CG is better acting as your anvil, but a Kraken rampaging along the flanks and rear is always good for a laugh, solid damage output and strider with WC means he projects a fantastic threat range
Kraken can be inspired by thuul mythican. GWE and CG can be inspired by Aquamage.
This is a big difference in a Waterbound-based lists. Thing is Kraken and Mythicans never meet in 3.0 in the same lists. Eckter help. Envoy can be a thing (Bastion) but both are SP5 and Kraken can charge… 18".
Yeah! I think of a CD as a main line support not a flanking unit.
I frequently take a Coral Giant (I have a 3d printed model that I really like for it) and I feel pretty good about it. Usually it stands guard over my line, using its 14" charge range to help cover for my slower stuff, then charges in, doesn’t do much damage, and gets in the way until it dies. The change to 75mm base hurt it a lot, as its flank is now so much larger. The way I’ve used it, I probably would be happier with a Kraken - it projects threat even further, and has the potential to grind really well with regeneration.
Undead resigned after turn 4. Last scoring unit was wavered. Final score 24:6.
I did ok but wampires are H2 and once or twice was unable to Weaken them with a spell. Must have that in mind. Also I have to cover my arcs just a bit better. Minor things but could potentially harm me next game. I was able to control the amount of damage I take. Even a vampire horde can not one shot a -/17 horde (especially weakened). Rushing Tides helped too as I was able to pull an unexpected flank charge on a pegasus.
Next round is a 2300 game. I was thinking about adding a Hearpiercer regiment (or Treeleaper regiment) and a Dambuster Sentinel. What do You think?
Thanks for the report! I like your list, because it uses elements that I’ve been thinking about including. Nice to see how you use them. I especially like the Treeleapers as a reserve to plug holes and prevent flanks.
I think your opponent’s biggest mistake was spreading out their charges - doubling or tripling up on the water elementals is a must.
Thst was the threat I had to face. I gave him single charges. His soul reavers were less than 12" from my WE horde. He could back a bit but never enough to avoid WE Charge (15") and a Knucker to the flank. I forced him to Charge. His warewolves were faster than my right flank (except for a Knucker) but the rest was faster on my side.
As I also view it, the single charges were a mistake. Most likely, the best option the undead played had was to double charge the GWE with wraiths and werevolves. That way, only the wraiths could have been attacked by the WE, maybe killed but the werevolves would finish the GWE next turn. I would also not charge with the soul reavers, just reposition them to anticipate the knucler and WE charge to their front. The central-left werevolves and soul reavers could be prepared to charge next turn into the second fight. Sure, it would be a completely different game then.
I was thinking this might happen too but I had several answers as WEs can deal with Warewolves long enough (especially with Drain support) for a Knucker to rear-charge. Not to mention dambusters. They add a lot of punch vs high def troops. 3-4 wounds makes a difference.
Dambusters could also flank Charge Warewolves. WEs could Charge wights to the flank (surge). Dambusters and GWE could counter Warewolves. 10-12 wounds with Drain support could easly waver them.
Anyway. Next round is a 2300 so I decided to expand existing build by adding some inspiration and something to force opponent moves into my charge range.
Decided to include:
Dambuster Sentinel (to work with Treeleapers and/or Dambusters)
Heartpiercer regiment (I was also thinking Treeleaper regiment but I think I need a main line unit and some shooting). Those few extra wounds are crucial for WEs/Toads/King to break units in one charge.
The list looks now like this:
Naiad Heartpiercers (20) Regiment [2 US, 160 pts]
