Great report, all 5 rounds of it 
I feel like your Tortured Souls were listening to us badmouthing them 
Also your Abyssal Champ could have been an Abyssal Warlock in a heartbeat, I’m very used to seeing them anchor Flamebearer regiments in Abyssal lists. Between the support magic and shooting and scoring and so on.
Ah, I didn’t realize we dropped a turn. That’s a bummer, though I don’t think it would affect the outcome. You did the MSU well here–swarming me and putting pressure on flanks/rears by late game. The tortured souls did a ton of work at the end of the game here. You thoroughly outplayed me. There were a few nerve rolls (fiend, gargoyles) that hurt my plan, but I don’t think they ultimately mattered in the big picture. I was so worried about the flamebearers that I came after them without really thinking through any other part of the game. Maybe I should invest in veil of shadows for the next matchup? NA doesn’t have much fast cav to pressure shooters other than maybe tundra wolves (de4).
Ooo, that is a good point on the Warlock @Boss_Salvage! I may need to seek out a model or two now. Thanks for the tip!
Yeah, the Tortured Souls looked deep down and finally got some good things done for me this game, but they are still just so awkward to use. We’ll see if I can figure anything out with them over the next few Abyssals games.
I think the scenario did me some big favors @Cartwright. In this case I think rushing the Flamebearers was the right idea, as those are the scariest things in the list if left untouched, but it just didn’t work out here. The NA movement phases were always complicated with Wavers, and the Insane hold of the Gargoyles just put your advance even further behind.
Tactically, I think this was a job for Snow Foxes. I don’t think either of us appreciated just how much damage the Snow Trolls were going to take though. Advancing everything while getting the Snow Foxes out a few inches in front to be sacrificed would have given the Trolls cover, and made my life harder.
Otherwise, strategically, yeah, dabbling in Veil of Shadows, adding in more screening Foxes, or just having your own shooting regiments all would have had this play out differently. Regimental shooting had much better performances on the day.
Jumping in with the abyssal reports, but I am chewing through the rest from the start.
Thanks for sharing, it’s a fun read.
These last two were interesting for me because I have a soft spot for abyssals (I started KoW with abyssals) and your lists are vaugely similar to my dwarf list, which is also MSU and relies on shooting (nudge, wink).
Two differences, though, is that I am fond of “versatile units” (i.e. that have ranged attacks and combat ability) and I have second line damage dealers (not a lot of damage, they’re there to finish things off).
I think your abyssal list could benefit from the latter.
You seen to struggle to deal enough damage, which seems to be a danger with MSU, so I think a combat capable unit would help your list.
It’s worth noting that you fared better in the game where you concentrated your shooting and got good damage on a few units.
Bane chant might help too.
Oh, wow, I missed that post. Thanks for the link @DarkBlack! I might have more thoughts for that thread later, but that was a fun read.
Dwarfs are obviously on the slow side, but with great stats and the throwing mastiff option, they looked like a very fun army for MSU. I picked up 60+ Mantic dwarf minis second-hand over the last few years, but just haven’t been able to bring myself to start hobbying on an entirely new army yet. Your list and approach really resonates with me though. The “nothing fancy, we’re a bit of a backwater” was how I approached my Empire in Warhammer. It was fun and fluffy, though not how that game was intended to be played. I didn’t win many games.
I have not explored MSU too much with the Abyssals quite yet, but would agree with your assessments so far. The Flamebearers have been nice in just about any list I’ve run, but they need about three regiments focusing to be really dangerous, and the melee damage output for the army has been a big issue. Abyssal Guard and Tortured Souls haven’t been used consistently well, so aren’t delivering quite as I had hoped they would. I think Bane Chant (probably via Warlocks) would be a good addition to a future attempt to help, but I think the list also needs some refinement. With everything needing to work together, list building, deployment, etc all need to be a bit better than what I usually bring to the table.
I appreciate the feedback and the dwarf report! That looks like a very fun and rewarding list to field.
It is indeed. Took some getting used to, but I figured it out and refined it.
A key realisation was that I have lots of unit strenght and even durability, but needed damage output (hence an organ gun and extra sharpshooters instead of things like Lords on Large Beast or Juggernauts).
I think you’ll find the same with your abyssals.
What might also be worth a try (not sure it’ll work though) is drain life. Adds damage AND durability.
Thank you for the kind words!
If you like my reports it may please you to hear that there’s another one coming to that thread in the next day or two.
You can also find my reports from some time ago here:
https://www.kowforum.com/t/follies-of-fools/1498
Thank you for sharing! That new report looks to be up and will go great with my coffee this morning. 
Drain Life intrigues me, but I’m not sure it pairs well with the Abyssals. I think that would pair better with higher defense units, but we’ll see. I’ll probably try it just to try it at some point now that the idea is in my head.
Looking forward to reading the reports and seeing what I can learn!
Warlocks can see over infantry, so it’s easier to cast (also lets me shoot at then though).
It may well be viable for abyssal guard, but not lower abyssals and flame bearers.
It definitely shows the value of wound recovery…
I lucked out and got a weekday game in against @Cartwright, debuting my arctic Herd against his Brothermark in a game of Loot. The report can be found here. I wanted to use some of my older models for the first outing of the army, so I ran a horde of Spirit Walkers supported by Longhorns and other more “tribal” units. The Herd is a bit of a glass cannon and so requires some extra finesse, but it can apply pressure very quickly.
My opponent made some great use of some Penitent spam, and his Bowmen with Phalanx were also a bit of a headache for me. It’s not mentioned in the report, but he’s got a new Phoenix that quietly supported his efforts each turn, and is painted up nicely.
Thanks to my opponent for fitting this in. It was a great time and I learned a lot about a new army!
Another good game against a new army! The longhorns were really solid units and caused some fits. Having the gur panthers all get wavered in a single turn took what was a close start to the game and blew things wide open. If those wavers didn’t happen, I think you win your left flank quickly and manage to contest the center token for the win.
The last time I tried penitent regiments, you shot them all off the table with flamebearers. This was a better matchup for me for sure. Similarly, the bowmen with phalanx were made for a game where they can camp a token and rain 3-4 wounds a turn on low defense Herd units.
For a quick effectiveness check: the two Rs of Abyssal Hunt cost 230pts each and did a total of 65 wounds (32.5 each). The Bowmen were 165 pts and did 19 dam. The phoenix was 175pts and 22 dam. The monster slayers are 255pts and did 23 dam.
The 3 siege artillery? 270pts total and did only 21 dam.
From a cost effectiveness standpoint, they’re pretty much in the middle of the pack of damage output. I like them for three reasons: (1) they project threat across the board and create a sense of urgency; (2) opponents tend to over-rate them and make quick moves to avoid them; and (3) because I’m not all that good at the game, I figure a high-variance unit probably gains me more by the occasional lucky roll that otherwise makes up for poor decision-making on my part. My 2c: I think you should largely ignore them and not worry too much. They’ll take off a unit or so during the game, but they rarely earn their points back.
Thanks for the report.
Two aggressive armies getting stuck right in.
Only having 2 bits of difficult terrain that don’t look very big is definitely hard on The Herd.
Just one piece of flat difficult would have made a big difference for you.
If you’re running tribal trappers; have a look at the formation.
Ensnare makes the tribal trappers in a terrain piece a potential solid point in a low De army.
The deadly snares rule is wonderfully thematic and surprisingly effective too.
Getting those analytics is just so neat @Cartwright. Kudos for tracking and sharing. Did the Phoenix math account for the Cloak of Death? That wasn’t a big thing this game, but was clipping a few units here and there as well.
I thought I could take the two artillery pieces on the flank real quick (I three things that could get charges in against them in Round 2), but it was not to be. Dice were dice and the Exemplar countered way harder than I was expecting them to. That is something more unique to the Brothermark, so it was nice to see those combat heroes contribute.
I have done a mediocre job at getting formations and unique units onto the table, but the Silent Hunt is a solid suggestion @Darkblack! I have worked up a few more Herd lists to test and squeezed the formation into a few of them. I was too aggressive with the Trappers here. With such low defense I shouldn’t be charging them into combats if I can help it. I’ll try to play them more conservatively in the future, and we’ll see how the Silent Hunt performs too! Thanks for the suggestion. I am looking forward to messing around more with the Herd!
Yep, the COD was accounted for with the Phoenix. I’ve been a big fan of the ancient Phoenix lately and am trying to work it into more lists. 175 points for us 1, fly, heal 5, 18" shooting, regen, cod/rol is a bargain IMO. It was fun to match up against a new list. Glad you’re always willing to try something new! I don’t know that I could keep track of running so many different armies…
My schedule slowed down my gaming these last few months, but I managed to fit in a game with the very accomodating @Cartwright recently. I took the arctic Herd out for another spin, squaring off against his Brothermark again. This time we played Raze and the report can be found here.
Being a bit of a fool, I decided to try out some Hydras and some Herd MSU. We actually both brought a formation and an unusual number of infantry regiments to the table. Scout was really fun to play with, though I am not utilizing it very well yet, and the Herd was able to apply a lot of early pressure. It is a fun army that is resulting in some very aggressive games so far. The game was a lot of fun, so thank you Cartwright for fitting this in!
Great game! The Herd put a lot of pressure early and jumped out to a lead. Unfortunately a combination of swingy dice and then minor positioning issues exposed the longhorns. But for that overrun roll, I think the Herd win this one.
The hydras were an interesting challenge. Def 5, 16/18 nerve with regen makes them an anvil in the midst of all your glass hammers. My plan going in was to ignore them, eat their 5 attacks per turn, and deal with them at the end. Obviously the Exemplar Hunter threw that plan out the window and YOLOd into a solo charge to start the game, which seems thematically fitting if not tactically sound.
Of the armies you’ve played, the Herd make me think the most because of the speed and how hard they hit. I think the Abyssals are a tougher matchup but the Herd really make my brain hurt and get out of my comfort zone.
Good game and thanks for making the drive!
Thanks for the write up!
Nice to see something I suggested in the next report!
You already know you could have been more aggressive with the trappers. You did end up using the snares in your opponent’s woods though!
I think this game was closer than it looked; if you got even half your bane chants and/or a good combat against the knights at the end it could have been a different result. The terrain was also not fair to you again, even one piece of flat difficult would help.
Definitely an army that takes some practice to get the most out of, so I hope that you keep playing this for a while.
Oh, for games like these, I am happy to make that drive anytime! Thanks for fitting this in @Cartwright!
Yeah, I think the Hydra is either going to be a) dump a lot of resources and destroy it in one turn or b) ignore it unit. It’s base damage output isn’t great, so chip damage will give it more attacks short-term, and long-term, regeneration could negate everything. We sorta got to see both approaches this game, so it was a very good learning experience with regards to the titan.
Yeah, the Herd requires more finesse than I was expecting, but it seems like a very rewarding army to pilot when things go right. I went through a hobbying bonanza with them this spring, and I think maybe half the units have seen the table so far. I have a lot to test with them still, so they will have more games coming! None of the Silent Hunt were used well, but they should have a better showing next time. Thanks for the suggestion @Darkblack!
Thanks for the report! Quite the game, plus I’m always happy to see your Herd get some action. The double Hydras had me raising double eyebrows, especially in combination with the formation, but I was happy to see MSU applied to Herd. As you discovered, you kind of end up not having many hammers to work with - this list has only one in the Longhorns? I did similar stuff with my Herd, dialing it down to loads of Spear regs and fast chaff, but I found that I would struggle my way to the other side of the board … and then do nothing. Once I added hammers back in I found my enjoyment (and win rate) shot back up. YMMV of course.
Speaking of Tribal Spears, shout-out to your left reg! They did a surprising amount of work. I also wouldn’t count out Spirit Walkers entirely, the horde is obviously very good, especially with an item. There’s a reason competitive Herd lists only take one infantry unit, and it’s a Spirit Walker horde. However as you found out, the regs really suffer for being De 3+ and not lifting as convincingly as the horde.
EDIT: Also you’ve reminded me of my enormous backlog of Herd games I need to report on 
Someday? Maybe?
Interesting - I have not looked into any tournament Herd lists and would not have guessed the Spirit Walkers would have been making the cut in competitive play. Just having TC1, the Walkers seemed like they needed a fair amount of additional investment (item and/or Druid w/ BC) to be threatening and reliable. The Longhorns impressed me though. So much so that I think I’ll look to hobby up another regiment’s worth at some point.
And yes, please get some more reports up @Darkblack! I am in the middle of a move and won’t have much free time until August. I need to live a little vicariously right now!
Oh no! I’m busy until at least August too.
My thesis is back from the examiners, so no games until I finish my corrections (it’s the last bit to do).
