Battle 060 can be found here. My opponent ran a “classic” Northern Alliance for himself, with regenerating anvils, some shooting, and some objective holders. With Fools Gold as the scenario, he played very well, and was well-suited for pressuring early and spreading out later to seize the objectives.
I tried a “no chaff” list, which didn’t play out the best. The Herd doesn’t have good heals or great grinding options. I was passive, and just got picked apart as the game progressed. It was still a great time and felt like I was learning a lot.
And then Battle 061 can be found here. For the second game, my opponent tried out a list with a similar style but some unusual units for him, running some Ice Elementals. The short-range shooting has torn my lists apart previously, but was less effective this game.
My second list added some speedy Herd chaff back in, and I played much more aggressively, and had much better outcomes! Some of those results were definitely lucky breaks, but I would definitely say I played smarter in the second game. Some Herd takeaways from both games:
Tribal Spear Hordes were a little difficult to use well, due to the horde footprint, but I liked them generally, and they seem like a great basis for building out a list these days. Few things are going to want to charge right in against them, and TC can give them some offensive oomph as well.
Guardian Brutes are fragile, and very vulnerable to chip damage, but look like one of our better hammer options still.
Winged Beasts of Nature are neat (I do like my flying monsters), but actually don’t have great combat stats, with just 7 attacks at CS2. Like so many things in the list, if you can make use of the Pathfinder, they should be better than normal, but in an open field, the Herd units are more expensive and less effective than a lot of similar alternatives.
A Hydra does make a pretty nice aggressive tar pit, as has been suggested on this very forum!
The Wiltfather is powerful, but I don’t think I am nearly aggressive enough with him. In the first game Hrimm came down early and my only deployment goal was to not deploy him opposite the giant. In the second game, we had more of a cat-and-mouse deployment with these two. I did better the second game, but still have a ways to go to understand the Wiltfather and Tree Herders.
I had a great time playing some great games, and I think I am slowly starting to get a better understanding of the Herd! A big thank you to Cartwright for hosting and fitting these in!
Thanks for the double reports! Especially as I’m jonesing to return to my own Herd so can live vicariously. Speaking of, my heart sank at each one of those lucky wavers and annoying windblasts, and I was often armchair generaling over here, urging you to be more aggressive
I was happy you didn’t change up your second list too much from the first, just adding back in that sweet, sweet chaff that was missing in the first list. While those six hordes in the first list are all quality, you do sacrifice quite a bit of control without chaff to guide them in, especially with Sp 6 on 4/6 of them.
Regarding that Beast + Ice Elemental sandwich, your average damage is 14.5 (dunno if you remembered vicious), for a rout test of only 2-3. So a pretty done deal … even if the other Ice Elementals were definitely ready to pounce
For the first game, cheap drop dwarf warriors at 115 points were a real benefit to the Northern Alliance, given how spread out the tokens were. I knew I had a drop advantage and, if I could kill a few of your units, would be able to grind you out readily enough. That was a tough match-up for the Herd.
For the second game: your write-up is maybe a little too generous to me. You pretty thoroughly outplayed me in this one, esp in the first turn. From there I was reactive and reminded me of the thumping you gave my Brothermark list a year or so ago. When things break right for the Herd, they break REALLY right and are tough. Well played and a good win.
For units, while I’ve toyed around with cavern dwellers as thick chaff (or more a tarpit), 210 points and no fury makes them a pricey way to do that. I think I lean more towards the snow troll prime as the way to chaff with a 50mm unit and a smaller price point (120) that can still get into flanks and cause damage. I’m still not sure what to make of bolt throwers. For 80pts, they can give an Ice Queen with blizzard a re-roll, which gives me some long-range threat, but I’m not convinced I shouldn’t just have another snow fox regiment out there to chaff or sit on objectives if needed instead.
Last week was a busy one for me, so thank you all for the posts and kind feedback! I am catching up on some things this week, including writing up 5 more reports! The first was posted yesterday, and I should (ideally) have one up each day this week and get all caught up.
Three of the five battles feature an aggressive Herd, but unfortunately, all of the reports are for smaller games, so the testing was limited. I don’t plan on spamming this channel with individual updates, but will try and link them all here at the end of the week, and see if any more of my thoughts can coalesce into themes or trends to highlight.
An aggressive Herd has definitely been fun, but piloting them still feels like everything is on fire and the wheels can come off at any point. I need to figure out how to add a little more consistency to the lists, and I am trying to hobby up a few more units before the Herd hit the table again in a larger game. I will try to test them out soon, and if I can source a model, Chief Griswold and his chariot could definitely be a thing! That doesn’t look half-bad option, especially if I have some a bunch of slightly unwieldy hordes around!
Oh, it definitely is fun, and the games that get a nice narrative going are usually the most memorable. I’m just bemoaning my lack of competency a bit! I wish I could get the Herd to be aggressive and consistent, instead of flaming out half way through more often than not. I think I am on to a few good ideas with how to run the Herd, but still have a ways to go, and a lot of things to test out and explore!
Alrighty, the work week is wrapping up, and all 5 reports are posted now. Smaller games, but they had some things with thinking about as I try to learn these armies better.
Abyssal MSU Battle 063 was Loot against some Abyssal Dwarfs, and was a bit of a mismatch in lists. My opponent had some big learns with strategy and I came away with a greater appreciation of the Chroneas and the Tortured Souls. Abyssal MSU still has some potential.
Kingdoms of Men Battle 066 was Dominate against the Imperial Dwarfs, and felt like it was going to be a rough match-up for the Kingdoms of Men. I built the list in case a game needed demoing, and had purposely tried to make it generic. The Giant had Slayer to encourage a memorable monster battle, and I accidentally clicked Blessing of the Gods instead of the Hammer of Measured Force for my Foot Guard Horde. My Ranged dice did not deliver, but experience with my army let me carry the day despite an odd list.
Herd Battle 062 was Invade against some Abyssal Dwarfs and had some victorious reform errors on my part. Giving up some advantages and tempo there, this game ended in a tie. Battle 064 was Plunder against some Imperial Dwarfs, and the Herd had a very strong start. The entirety of Round 3 had one-sided dice to the benefit of the Imperial Dwarfs, leading to a complete and utter reversal of my situation. Dice are dice, but this hurt my budding confidence a bit with the Herd. Battle 065 was a very cagey game of Kill versus some very crafty Halflings! My opponent brought a good list and stuck to a good gameplan, my opponent had me on the ropes, but just enough bounced my way to make this an unexpected tie.
Overall, I wasn’t too happy with my Herd at this smaller scale. My aggressive mindset was good, but my smaller lists seemed to be lacking something. Dice aside, I continually ran out of steam and failed to close out games to my liking. I still had a great time running the Herd in each game, but I need to do some tweaking to make my them a little more forgiving and consistent. Highlights of my current thinking:
Tribal Spear Hordes are working out great, and I want TC all the time unless I am taking something like the Hammer of Measured Force.
Lycan Alphas. I need to try them at larger games, but the yolo disrupting and chaffing approach didn’t work for me. They might be better in larger games, where they can inspire other outflanking units, and then nimbly pop in to break other units with unexpected charges. Here, they were speedy but fragile.
Flying Beast. The 20” move and pivot is some ridiculous pressure if the rest of the line moves up too. Aggressive Herd for the win! The Beast is a big buy for the smaller games though, and might have some operational overlap with the Lycan Alpha. I like the Beast, but we’ll continue to test these, and explore the army roster more.
Minotaur Chariots. They are some of the few things in the army that can actually get up to CS/TC 3… but are relying on TC2 to get there, and so have a lot of the same combat shortfalls the rest of the Herd has, such as a weakness to Phalanx and grinding combats. Additionally, the stock unit lacks, Pathfinder. Making them more difficult to effectively use alongside the rest of your army. Troops seem like intriguing options on paper (cheap, decent stats, smaller frontage), but it would be a nightmare for me to hobby up with my current setups. The Stampede, gaining some Nerve, Strider and Pathfinder has more synergies with the rest of the list, is great, but is a lot of points, and still has the combat weaknesses mentioned already. They are just a weird unit. More testing is needed, though I think the starting path here is to see if the Stampede, being easier to use, is worth its points.
A big thank you to my opponents as I wrap up a solid week of report posting here. With the smaller scale, I was able to get in a lot of great games against a lot of great people recently, and came away with some good stories, and a lot of things to consider for future lists!
As much as I love the Stampede (and am one of the only Herd players who does), I still wish it hadn’t come back, or not like it did. Minotaur Chariots were genuinely interesting when they had strider baked in … but once the Stampede came back and took that from them, I knew I would never run them. I play Herd for global pathfinder, and while I could tolerate strider and not pathfinder, I can’t justify a unit that’s going to trip over terrain like some soft-footed human I agree that the troop size could be cute (with Skirmisher’s Boots of course) but the Great Chieftan on Minotaur Chariot also exists and I never take him because of his phobia of terrain, so I’m not going to in the chariot troop’s case either.
All that said, I do like the Stampede and get a lot of mileage out of it. And I’m happy it’s not the auto-include easy button hammer it was in 2E (when you could take multiple!)
Yeah, even though it has been against the same style of list each time, I’ve quite enjoyed the recent games against the Imperial Dwarfs. The army has a nice feel to them these days! Ordered March is a great update so they don’t have to trudge around and pivot. One subtle change going into 3rd was making Headstrong a 3+ instead of a 4+, giving the Dwarfs here some added stubbornness. I don’t think he’s failed that check yet, making his lists even more resilient.
Appreciate the thoughts (and your recent reports!) @Boss_Salvage. Yeah, having Chariots with Strider would be an interesting choice, but unfortunately, I missed that window and this is their first outing in 3rd. They are going to be a tough unit to utilize well, and I don’t think giving them the one-shot J Boots would do much either. I think it’ll be Stampede-or-bust since it synergizes so much better with the rest of the army.
Apologies, it has taken me a while to get to these!
On The Herd:
While I really like the formation, especially thematically, tribal spears are clearly filling a similar role more cost effectively.
I really like the spear horde, it fills a gap for your list
Your KoM giant charged dwarf infantry 3 times.
Brining the total to 10 vs big stuff and 16 vs small stuff.
Oh, take your time @Darkblack! May hasn’t been great for my gaming availability, so unfortunately you are all caught up for now. I probably won’t have a big “proper” game until mid July.
My Dwarven opponent was incredulous that I was wounding the Ironclad on 2’s with the Giant. If they can hit, the Giants can do some good work! That game would have been an amazing showcase for Rampage, but alas, that was not in the list I had printed out.
The Spears are doing very well indeed! A horde or two of Tribal Spears seem like a great place to start building a list, and I’ll be adding in a second horde in my next larger game. My approach still has some gaps though, and has struggled to finish out games. Many of my lists have been running expensive centerpieces and monsters though, so I think I just need to zero in on the toys I want and then be running a few more standard units for more staying power. The Herd is challenging but fun. We’ll see what I come up with in the coming weeks and months.
Thanks for the continued reports I had some list comments re: the latest Herd league game that I figured I’d toss out here rather than trying to remember for when you officially cover them on the forum:
First off, very cool to see so many centaurs. Cav in general seems to flourish in smaller points games, and I still think Bray Striders have a lot going for them. Bray Hunters, not so much, but I appreciate seeing them in action, and the regiment size does seem more functional than the troop size. Props as well on the chariot chieftain! Glad he did ok for himself.
Brutes already have fury! So while I appreciate the sentiment, the Chalice does nothing for them
I’m just not a Scrying Gem guy and always have better uses for the points. Spoilers.
I always take Sharpness on my spear horde whenever possible, and when I don’t I take the Chalice because wavering with that many attaks sucks. While you could take the Chalice, dropping the Gem and the Chalice gives you the points to take Sharpness. Run fast, hit hard, grind well. Especially if you’ve got bane chant to support them …
Which you do, except it never seems to work, m’right? These days I either don’t take bane chant (2) or I staple a Conjuring Staff on that caster. It still doesn’t seem to work for me most the time but math says it should so it’s hard to think of a better use of 10 points. The Druid’s baby spells are quite meh, and while I like putting Mead on Brutes (to out threat other Sp 6 hammers), you’ve got centaurs to pin fast movers down and Harpies to get in the way of even faster movers.
Dunno if all this helps in future games, but at the very least probably don’t give Brutes the Chalice
Oh my god you are correct. Thank you for pointing that out! Magic items continue to not be my forte. The Brutes had had some rough wavers previously and I must have just internalized that they needed some Waver mitigation without rereading their rules to see what might actually be helpful. Sheesh. That makes me like the Brutes a bit more though.
And thank you for the item advice! I am not good at tweaking or streamlining a list either. Tribal Spears continue to do well, and it’s time to start playing around with items on them. I’ll move sharpness to the top of the list of things to test!
So, as noted by Boss, I got some games in recently, and while it took a little longer than usual, the reports are now finished and posted. Two were league games, featuring the Herd:
The league is up to 1400 points in June. Previously my Herd has struggled to close out games, so I tried to pare back on the monsters and fancy stuff and just run more actual units. In addition to Guardian Brutes and Tribal Spears, I brought a handful of brand new units, including some Centaurs!
The Centaur Bray Striders were neat. While definitely not knight-equivalents, they were able to deal some damage and dissuade some things with their speed. They have some weird stats though, which makes it hard to noodle out their role.
The Centaur Bray Hunters were not used particularly well, but did seem ok as Regiments. I like this style of unit, and they are cheaper than Scorchwing Hordes, so we’ll try them again soon.
The Centaur Chief also has some weird stats. With just 4 attacks he’s not a powerhouse, but seems like a decent option for inspiring some speedier things (like other Centaurs).
The Chieftain on Chariot actually did ok, but this was mostly due to sparse terrain and timid opponents overestimating him. He’s got some good modifiers to his damage rolls, but only 5 base attacks, so he’s not too scary on the charge. As discussed in the forum here, lacking Strider and Pathfinder is rough, so he won’t be a common pick for me. I think his best role seems to be as a roadblock, which isn’t glamorous.
The Tribal Spears continue to impress me, just by existing. Buying TC gives them some nice damage output, and I think is close to a must-buy upgrade since it is so cheap. As Boss’s reports show, Brew of Sharpness can be great on them, and I’m going to be running some other items on them in July. Chalice would be good on them, and I’m looking at Brew of Strength and even the Hammer of Measured Force, due to some meta considerations.
The Herd still requires some finesse to use, but adding more units seemed to be the right call for these league games.
I also got in a 2300 point game against @Cartwright, which was Battle 070, with the Kingdoms of Men (Monarch and hordes) vs the combined arms of the Northern Alliance.
The Monarch was finished up in August of '22 and had yet to hit the table for the KoM. It’s a neat, customizable titan. I noticed that Foot Guard had the Knight keyword, and could be Rallied by another Monarch upgrade, so ran a force of mostly Knights and Foot Guard. Rallying didn’t really come up though, so I’ll have to try it again sometime!
Knight Horde was a neat pick. My opponent did a great job at keeping them disordered, but they still managed to punch through several units and make their points back.
Crossbowmen were also neat. They lost Pot Shot, and are not the most points-efficient way to land damage at range, but as a horde, will take some effort to remove, and can lay down some decent fire if they can get good positioning. They overperformed here, making their points back thanks to Fire Oil, and the NA bringing a lot of things with Regeneration.
I really wanted to test out a Pole-Arms horde in combat. Previously, they’ve been multicharged and obliterated. Here, my opponent chaffed them up, and with hindered charges, I didn’t take much damage on them, but also couldn’t deal it, due to their mediocre stats.
Multiple Hordes proved to be a bit much for me. I didn’t want to go too wide, given that I am just the Kingdoms of Men, but a closer stack was not the right call either. We’ve got a local Orc player I have yet to play against. I’ll need to pick his brain or take notes when we finally cross paths. Still, despite tripping over my own units, it was fun to get so many humans on the field!
Some great games and some good insights! I can’t ask for more than that.
Great game and great report. The knight horde was scary, but it has such a big footprint in a crowded match-up that it seemed tough to use. The crossbowmen continue to hit that sweet spot of not effective enough for me to invest the resources in killing them, but effective enough to put out a few wounds a turn. They took off a horde of snow trolls, put damage on other units, carried a token, and ultimately secured the outcome for you. That’s not a bad outing!
As always, fun game. Hopefully schedules align again a sooner next time.
On magic artefacts; I use physical reminders.
I have made a bunch of tokens (scratch buliding and bits) for games and I pick one of those to represent artefacts and put it on the unit’s base.
Then I have a physical object that stands out on the unit that I see when I look a it, to remind me the units has it.
Especially useful for one use items.
As it should though.
Chariots don’t work in any kind of difficult terrain, I may be trying to be too realistic, but I came into wargaming through historical and the notion is rather ingrained.
Having chariots in a forest faction is a bit silly, really.
On The Herd games;
Well played both times!
I think that dropping something for throwing mastiffs would have been better for the dwarfs.
Also note, you don’t need to withdraw to leave combat.
Wuthdraw gives you an inch of space, but if you don’t need it you can just move; as long as the moving unit is charging or ends 1" away from enemies.
The insane mastiffs could have just charged, avoiding the -1 Me for withdrawing and charging.
The Abyssal Guard were a rather tricky bunch.
The abyssal list is not how I would do it either, but seems to work.
I felt like you had centaurs doing something useful all over the place in that game.
That doesn’t look half-bad option, especially if I have some a bunch of slightly unwieldy hordes around!
I think I am on to a few good ideas with how to run the Herd, but still have a ways to go, and a lot of things to test out and explore!
I agree that the troop size could be cute (with Skirmisher’s Boots of course) but the Great Chieftan on Minotaur Chariot also exists and I never take him because of his phobia of terrain, so I’m not going to in the chariot troop’s case either.
I had some list comments re: 
