Regnum Aeternum - Written Battle Reports for KoW 3rd Edition

Thank you @DarkBlack!

On magic artefacts; I use physical reminders.

I think this will need to be the way for me. I know a few folks that run flash cards for stats and/or the items, and some that use the official item cards, but I don’t like the glare and look on the table of cards for the reports. I did up a few Indomitable Will tokens, and have a few unpainted tokens for Sacrificial Imps… and think I just need to make the jump to having some generic tokens to lug around to help me out. I think that’s good advice. Thanks!

Having chariots in a forest faction is a bit silly, really.

You know, I think that’s probably the root of my gripes. The Stampede from 2nd fit the fluff with just a throng of beasties, and the Chariots in 3rd fit that footprint, but not the fluff. I think the other part is that we had these buffs at one point, at least for Strider, so not having it anymore is a bummer when you look at the changes to the unit over time. Good points for sure though, and I think the root here is that the chariot unit just shouldn’t be here. The nature-adjacent faction should have beasts and not contraptions.

Also note, you don’t need to withdraw to leave combat.

I think you were posting this about the time I found out about it in a tournament. My mind is definitely blown here. I thought the withdraw was mandatory, and the price you paid for disentangling and charging a new unit. It bit of a bummer to be playing a rule wrong, but at least I have been doubly corrected. Thanks!

The Centaurs had some stumbles, but were definitely fun to explore in the Herd games. I’m finishing up some new reports and still gathering my thoughts on the Striders, but hope to get them and the Herd back on the table again soon and see what else I can learn.

And yeah, lots of hordes with the Kingdoms of Men was a neat way to play! I still haven’t faced off against our local orc player, but that might be a good playstyle to run against him for maximum silliness and learning potential.

As always, thanks for your insight! I appreciate all of your feedback. We just finished up a doubles tournament this last weekend, so I’ll have more games for you to dissect shortly!

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I have a plastic box with compartments that’s a bit bigger that one I would have for wavering tokens, damage counters and objectives anyway.
Crafting dodads was fun; I raided my bits box, went to a haberdashery (a shop that sells sewing supplies) for beads and the like (craft stores should work too) and made a load of books and scrolls.

No argument from me.
With the “bullgor” style minotaurs that are common these days I think that Sp 7 with TC could just be minotaurs.

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We just had the first interstate doubles tournament between Minnesota and Wisconsin this last weekend. We were paired-up with someone across the state line, each brought 1000 points and made a day of it!

Pairings were announced ahead of time so we could scheme… and my partner and I decided to double up on the Abyssals, though did hit some complications. We had quite different approaches to the game and even to the army, but we had a great time and did pretty well! I have three battle reports for you all:

Game 1, Battle 071 Against Abyssal Dwarfs and Ogres in Control

Game 2, Battle 072 Against @Cartwright’s Northern Alliance and some more Ogres in Invade

Game 3, Battle 073 Against Abyssal Dwarfs and Ratkin in Kill

Alignment didn’t matter for pairings, and we had a pretty good variety of armies. My partner went for kitted Succubi, and the Manifestation of Ba’el, and I went for the Chroneas and Tortured Soul spam: two very different approaches to the playing army.

  • Tortured Souls are still fun to use, and Fearless really helped since I gambled and only brought one source of Inspiring. The Horde was a good unlock for me and my needs, but seems underwhelming overall.
  • The Chroneas is still a really fun monster. It lucked out a bit, but managed to not only do work but survive in each game. Lots of fun!
  • Drain Life has Piercing 1! I missed that and struggled to get use out of the spell all day.
  • The Manifestation and Zaz the Betrayer are good if you can run them together and focus their fire. Zaz repeatedly betraying your main anvil is probably not the best tactical call though.
  • My partner preferred very expensive Succubi regiments, with both the Lurker (for Pathfinder) and magic items to help them out. They admittedly did do some work, but that seemed like a gamble and I’m still split on whether they are good picks or not, since they are such big investments.

We had a 15/10/5 scoring arrangement for the scenarios plus up to 5 bonus points per game for attrition. This was my first real event with rankings and there was lots to learn from and to think about. I had a great time, and we had quite the surprising finish!

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Good game!

You had a good plan an it worked! Ogres are dangerous, good job on keeping then boxed in and busy.

On the herd list; I can see the appeal of the longhorns as a battle line, De 5+ and all rallying each other plus the flexibility of 3 regiments (like in my dwarf list).
Looks like a strong backbone, but it needs punch to back it up (read: guardian brutes), which in the context of a doubles list means that it’s relying on having a punchy ally to support.

I agree with your assessment though.
How strong of a line do you need? I think The Herd does better by skimping on defensive units and leaning into an aggressive punch.

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Maybe I am being loose with my terms. The gist is that I would agree with this sentiment. The Herd needs to be aggressive.

I think these units are what he has painted up right now, and I think that I “got” the list and played it largely how he intended it to be played. I just don’t think Longhorn spam is a good way to play the Herd. It’s an expensive and defensive approach, and the Herd doesn’t play well on defense in my experience.

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This game certainly showed how ensnare and regen work.
Hard fought and close.

I’m also not sure on your ally’s list design.
That’s a lot of points invested in making stuff better.
Succubi have a lot of attacks, making improving them potentially efficient and effective.
I think pathfinder is great for them, lets them be effective while using terrain to mitigate thier fragility.
I think that bane chant and maybe another unit would get a simliar, but more versatile result than all the expensive artefacts though.
I would also rather take a sacrificial imp than an offensive artefact on the lower abyssals.

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Thanks for the write up!
I do miss having doubles events, they’re fun and a great way to help new players into the game.

Well done on second place!

The last game showed the wound revovery abyssals can pull off nicely and that game made me miss playing abyssals.

It’s a pity your drain life wasn’t as effective as it should be. It’s a deceptively good spell because it swings the combat by also healing your unit, putting your opponent further from breaking your unit as well as puting you closer.

I like drain life for warlocks on paper.
There is no cover penalty, they can cast it over infantry better than other spells and it leans into the damage recovery abyssals already do.
-Warlocks came into the list after I stopped playing abyssals though.
I once had a regiment of abyssal horsemen backed by a warlock with drain life grind out a steel behemoth.

Speaking of wound recovery, chroneas impressed in these reports.

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Thank you! We went far further than either of us thought we would go, and overall, this was a great introductory event.

Yeah… I would have liked to have workshopped our lists a bit more, but we just didn’t seem to have the time to coordinate effectively, so I encouraged him to run what he was comfortable with. My partner and I had very different approaches to the army and the game. Things went in our favor, but there were definitely some inefficiencies

Parts of his list made sense to me, but the Succubi are still confusing. I kinda want to crack them and figure out how to run them, but am also hoping that they just get a more straightforward overhaul with the update. They are weird, since you are paying for a bunch of slightly incongruous rules and stats…

They have a ton of attacks, so it seems rational to want to boost those, but my partner’s approach seems like an over-investment, and I think most 200-point units would perform similarly. Thinking on it over the last week, similar to how I was incorrectly viewing the Herd’s Hydra through an offensive lens, I think the same might be true with the Succubi and their Lurker upgrade.

I think if you take the upgrade, you should be using them more as an anvil unit, using Pathfinder not for charges, but primarily for the uninterrupted movement to get into terrain more quickly. This still doesn’t seem great though, as a Def3 anvil seems silly, and so little in the list has Strider/Pathfinder, that you’ll have a hard time effectively saving them if something does charge in. With the upgrade, this feels like a weird use of 170 points. After the tournament, I pulled out some old purchases and should have some more Succubi regiments of my own ready soon. More thoughts to come here, and we’ll race the refresh a bit.

Warlocks were still quite nice, despite my goofs with Drain Life. Even just Height 3 was nice, and I will be exploring these more I think.

The Chroneas was definitely an all-star for me, and played very nicely with all of the Fearless units I had. The list worked well in Games 1 and 3, but unfortunately couldn’t catch many breaks in Game 2!

Overall, this was still a very nice introduction to tournament play and that kind of thinking. I don’t know when I’ll get to play in a tournament next, but I’m into it. The only bummer is that this result is going to be hard to beat!

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That was the plan! Ice Naiads to tank charges, then generate it back and let other units do the killing. When it works, it’s nasty.

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I was lucky enough to get two more league-affiliated games in the books recently. We are up to 1700 points in July, so will be breaking into the usual, larger games in August and September. I brought the Herd. It’s gotten 2000+ points of new things the last few months, so I am bringing a little bit of everything to test. I played around with Centaur Hunters, Centaur Striders, Greater Earth Elementals, Forest Wardens, and items on the Tribal Spears.

Battle 074 was against the Imperial Dwarfs in Hold the Line
Battle 075 was against the Halflings in Raze

Some good games against some good players! The league stuff is coming along nicely! Insane courage did make some appearances here … all for my benefit. I had some good luck these games! In 074 I think I talked myself into some good moves, repeatedly multi-charging things whenever I could, or order to secure the routs. In 075, I felt on the back foot all game. I ended in a pretty strong position, but daring plays and hot dice from my opponent to close out let him secure the win.

  • I liked the Brew of Strength and the Brew of Sharpness on the Tribal Spears. I want to test out a few more things but those look like strong go-to items to push the hordes into potent threats.
  • Forest Wardens were neat! I unfortunately wasn’t able to test out any items with them, but having a little guy to go grab tokens as the game went on was nice. I want to run them alongside elementals for now, to make use of surge, but I think there could be an argument to be made for having them as a source of inspiring regardless.
  • Greater Earth Elemental was also quite nice. The Herd struggles with grinds, phalanx, high armor, and obstacles, so the GEE helps cover a lot of weaknesses! If your opponent has tools, they don’t last as long, but were still a nice anchor for me.
  • Centaur Hunters impressed me. I got lucky in the dwarf game to get good value out of them, but having TC gives them a little more to do on the battlefield.
  • Centaur Striders are still wacky. They didn’t have a ton of output, and my gut approach of treating them just as a speedy infantry regiment felt right. The regiments definitely need support to break things.
  • Centaur Chieftains were also wacky. With just 4 attacks, I struggled to get more than 1 damage out of them most of the time. They were nice disruptors though, so maybe they do have a place as one-off in larger lists.
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Great games both :+1: Made me miss my Herd, as your list / play is coming closer to how I play the faction - not fully alpha strike but assertive and out to do violence. Glad the spear item worked out for you, I definitely think +1 to hit does wonders for them, making them a potential hammer instead of just a decent anvil. (The main reason for sharpness over strength is that De 2-3+ exists in the game; in those cases CS1 either isn’t useful or is only useful in the grind, and generally speaking I avoid grinding too much with Herd, tho spears can certainly do it thanks to having some nerve behind them.)

Shout out to the Forest Warden, I was interested in them before the buff and quite bullish on them now. I would have been content with self-inspiring but full is great and lets the Centaur Chiefs and Lycan Alphas of the list go off and be annoying instead of babysitting the slower parts of the herd.

Good on ya taking a GEE in Herd! I’ve had a model half built for years now that is destined to be a Herd GEE but have definitely put it off as the unit is a weird fit for the Herd, generally speaking.

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Thanks! Yeah, the GEE seems like an odd fit for the speedy Herd, but I think there’s something there. I hobbied up a second titan as well, so we’ll see what I can do with them both in the future. And GEE or not, the Forest Warden is probably going to be in most of my lists coming up. I’d like to make use of Surge, but even without a target there is a lot of utility in that little guy.

Then, while my darn schedule precluded some weekend meetups, and will box me out the rest of July, I was able to squeeze a weeknight game in with Cartwright a few days ago. Battle 076 can be found here.

I have liked the Multiple Small Units approach in other games. For Kings of War, I have come to think that the more proper term would be MMU, since troops are the small units, and those are not run often besides as sacrificial chaff since the points premium is so high. Regiments are where it is at here. The middling Kingdoms of Men haven’t played this style well, but the more elite Abyssals have done ok. I wondered if I could go on the other direction with a low-quality MMU approach, so tried that with the Undead.

Zombies and Revenant Cav provided the bulk of the unlocks, and then I took some Goreblights and Burrowing Wyrms to try and deal damage. I don’t run the undead often, and don’t think I did anything particularly well, but the scenario was most kind to me, letting me leave some Zombies here and there to guard the tokens.

  • Zuinok Iceblood is a weird dude. I got more use out of him that I was expecting, but I think one will really want to run some basic skeleton hordes to get the most out of him.
  • ASB with Tome (Surge) seems like a great standard pick for the Undead. The Wild Charge Aura does apply to Rev Cav and the Burrowing Wyrms here, but unfortunately I only brought one, and was not able to make use of that interaction.
  • Vampire on Pegasus was fun to use, but probably not a great competitive pick. He seems slightly worse than the Kingdoms of Men version, while being more expensive. I’ll give him a few more tries, but I am not super-impressed with him so far.

There was some whiplash going from the speedy Herd to the shambling Undead, but they were a great change of pace since they play so differently from my other armies. MMU could maybe be a thing thing them, but looks like it will need some more thought and finesse. Even if that proves nonviable, just popping them out for the occasional game will be fun too! I hadn’t run them since February, and I forgot all about the ASB interactions until after deployment, so I’ll try to break them out a little more often.

A big thank you to Cartwright for making the drive and letting us get this one in!

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That was a good showing for throwing mastiffs and shield breakers.

The rest of the game looked rough on the dwarfs. :smiling_face_with_tear: They were perhaps spread too thin. I reckon a cheaper unit could have done what the horde did and the horde would have been great in the centre.

Those halflings look great and their list looks solid.

The greater earth elemental is interesting and looks to be the monster you need. Why not a tree herder?
I’d be wary of spending points on surge for one target.
The forest warden did great beyond having surge, though.
Scoring heroes are great in general.

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For 074, I do think bullying the Herd a bit and pressuring all three zones was a good call to take advantage of his superior Unit Strength, but would agree that the horde might have been better used elsewhere. Deploying the other stuff nearer together (you don’t need to be in the center of the zone to score it) would have been wise as well. I don’t recall the scenario, but he played a bit more compactly in his next game against someone else and came away with a strong win there. While he’s had a few bumps, the Dwarves have been very strong in the local league.

For 075, the Halflings just look so crisp! Game-wise he thinks a lot of Halfling Generals are sleeping on the Muster Captain, which is what really unlocks his lists. It’s a heck of a hero! My Herd has felt inferior every game against the Halflings and their Striding charges.

Both players are good dudes and running some very strong stuff. The games always make me think. Whether or not I retain anything month-to-month is another story!

Case-in-point are those Tree Herders. Despite some good performances from them (the Wiltfather in particular, way back in February) I think I lumped the Tree Herders in with the Verdant stuff which wasn’t working for me, as well as with the Avatar and centerpiece models, which I was trying to get away from as well. On average they should hit about as hard than the GEE, and help solve all the same problems… while also helping out with my Inspiring issues, and they also don’t Shamble but do Scout, better matching up the Herd’s speed… you know, I think you are on to something here! Thanks for the suggestion / reminder @Darkblack!

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Thanks for the write up.
The dice were wild in that game!

Also intetesting for me because I’m looking to play undead, eventually.
I have ~3000 points of undead on spures; but don’t enjoy surge as a mechanic, so I’ve been painting other things first.
I like the theme and aesthetic, though, and undead are a fantasy staple, so I’ll get to them eventually.
Even if not as a KoW only army (i.e. induvidual bases), I’m not keen on getting any more armies for only one ruleset anyway.

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Oof, I have been away for a bit. Yeah, the Undead are just such a classic army. I hope to get some more games in soon with them. Playing with and against them a few times, Surge has felt “nicer” with the army, since most targets are a) units and b) slower. There are still tricky elements, but it’s more manageable for both players, compared to stuff like the Greater Air Elementals.

I’ve got a similar problem in that I have a collection of Mantic Dwarfs, which I was going to likely run as Free Dwarfs. I have been getting in a good number of games this year, but not sure I should commit to another KoW army. We’ll see what the hobbying and gaming future holds…

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I had one free weekend in August, and was lucky enough to fill both days with wargames. Saturday saw me out in Mukwonago for some 2000 point games with the Kings of War Wisconsin Escalation League.

I brought the Herd, looking to explore some Longhorn Troops for Rallying, as well as some Tree Herders, which DarkBlack had suggested / reminded me about.

Battle 077 was against the Abyssals in Pillage.
Battle 078 was my first game of 3rd against the Elves in Salt the Earth.

I essentially lucked out into some good matchups. A Tree Herder costs a lot, so my lists were pretty elite, and I was out-deployed both times, with some scary stuff coming down both games after I was completely deployed. Outdropped, the Longhorn troops still gave me a few units that I could be reactive with, allowing me to zone things out while my go-to units of Tribal Spears and Guardian Brutes did the work.

The Longhorns troops were actually pretty fun, and worked well for me here… but I don’t think they were actually an efficient pick. Centaur Striders troops (like I think Boss was running for a bit) would probably be better (slight reduction in damage output, but a greater threat range), and Tribal Warriors/Spears could do the same job for cheaper, if all I need to do is disorder a flier or block up a potential charge or otherwise tie something up for a turn. It was neat to see troop units help out in some games, but there are arguably better options if one needs a unit for this reactive role.

As a second-line unit they worked well, but rallying didn’t come up at all though, so we’ll get them on the table a few more times, maybe as regiments, and see if that could be a role for them.

Tree Herders and the WIltfather over-performed in both games. They don’t quite solve the Inspiring difficulties for me, but they do help, as most major combats have a source right there to help me out. I’ll likely be exploring these more in the future, but do need to plan and build around them more I think, since they are so expensive.

Should have the other two games (Abyssals) posted soon… racing to get those written and posted before I head out on a bit of a vacation.

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Great games! Really enjoying the core of the list, cool to see somebody giving Longhorn troops a shot. I remember this was declared to be the way when they were changed up, but I’ve rarely seen it done in game beyond a single troop. Also funnily enough I’m thinking about running a Herder (or possibly Daddy tho he’s a little too good for me) in my 2025 Herd, tho currently the Father is calling to me so I can finally get some dragon practice :shushing_face:

There was a reform thing that bothered me in #77, when Bael was flanked by Tribal Spears with the Tree Herder in front. I made some diagrams because unlike you I’m not trying to balance units on a hill in meat space :stuck_out_tongue:

  1. The situation: Bael is about to die but there’s a regiment of Hellhounds to the west, a regiment of Ghouls to the north, Molochs to the northeast, and troop of Longhorns to the south. The Molochs are being chaffed with a troop right now, so there’s a little time for the Tribal Spears to either not be charged by them or hopefully get that charge in themselves. The problem: Surviving the Hellhounds’ imminent charge, which is easily in range and nimble makes extra hard to avoid.

  2. This is the more exact version of the reform from the game, with the Herder turning to face the Hounds and the Spears facing the Molochs. Due to the hill and finagling, the horde in the game ended up with their flank to the Hounds, blocked enough by the Herder to encourage the Hounds to plow into the Herder’s frontage. In the magic of technical space, we can see that’s not an option, and I’ve added the expected damage from the Hounds 24 4+ TC1 attaks in the diagrams. This is probably the worst reform option, as the horde dies instantly with potentially no reprisal.

  3. In this double reform, both face the Hounds, giving no good options for the charge and most likely pushing the hounds to move to safety, delaying their inevitable charge and giving the Molochs time to press in on the Spears. The Hounds are close to the board edge but they aren’t that close yet.

  1. If the Herder sidesteps 1", the Spears can keep the Hounds in their front while getting a little bit of angle into the Abyssal backfield (Warlock and Ghouls are back there). The Herder can be flanked and if it dies the Spears can seek vengeance. They might not be able to combo-charge if it lives.

  2. If the Herder sidesteps 2", the Spears can maintain frontage on the Hounds and get even more angle into the Ghouls / Warlock. They can easily charge or counter-charge the Hounds if they attak the Herder. Also in 4-6 the Herder can counter the Hounds if they foolishly charge the Spears.

  3. If the Herder sidesteps 3", the Spears can do what they do in #5 or they can put both the Ghouls and the Molochs into their LOS at the cost of letting the Hounds take a crack at their flank. 48 attaks bypassing phalanx is unfortunately really good! If the Hounds fail, the Spears can go take that charge on the Molochs and the Herder can punch the Hounds. If the Hounds succeed, the Herder can probably charge them (potentially in the flank or rear) if the Hounds try to overrun, or just hit them in the face if they reform to face.

image

    1. This was more or less the situation in the game, but it was ruled that the Herder’s base could block the Hounds from flanking the Spears. I messed around with this but I could place the Hounds’ base to either side of the Herder, especially with nimble. There wasn’t a lot of space to either side but it definitely existed.

  1. What if the Herder backs up? No matter the distance rolled, the Spear horde can try its luck and show the Hounds its flank. The Herder is on hand to counter-charge or possibly seek vengeance depending on how the Hounds reform and where the Herder has backed up to.

  2. If the Herder backs up a full 3", the horde can reform to put the Hounds in their front and the Ghouls into arc. This is the same as #6 except that the Herder isn’t in the way but the Spears likely cannot respond if the Herder is flanked and killed.

This is a lot to say that I think sidestepping the Herder is the best answer, and facing the Hounds with spears to drive them off. Turning the flank of the Spears to face them (#6) is a thought if the goal is to bait the Hounds in and ‘ground’ them with the Herder, but as much as I like trading down I’m not sure if trading the sharp Tribal Spears is worth it :confused:

I also had the thought, What else could the Herder be doing if it didn’t counter-charge Bael? We know the Spears don’t need help killing the demon (indeed they didn’t, spoilers!) … The Herder could have turned to the west and gotten closer to the Hounds? The angle is wrong to stand in their leaderpoint, so at best he’s putting them into a charge-or-go-away position, which is a thing?

Also! No shade on that reform in game, this stuff is far easier on a computer and again, y’all were doing all this with pokey bits and on a hill because what would Kings be if not those two things at the same time? (Speaking of the hill, as far as I could tell there wasn’t a way that the Spears could disappear behind the hill from the Hounds, the horde is so long and the geometry of rotation was going to keep the unit’s center on there.)

EDIT: And one more option, the Herder could have sidestepped and the Spears overrun after it. This still baits with the Herder’s flank and pressures the Hounds a bit harder if they choose not to engage. It probably means that the horde can’t combo if the Herder lives, so you’re basically hoping the Herder either dies or the Hounds try to escape up or down the board edge. It also gets the Spears’ rear a little further from the Molochs, which might be enough given how slow those are.

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Yeah, we always seem to be fighting on hills and in terrain and making things messy, and are often out in the middle of the table where it is harder to see and reach no less! I like the physical terrain, but there is an argument to be made for printed out flat stuff for reasons like this. I think I need to also invest in some blocks or stairs to help me out.

Great catch; I should not have been able to reform the Spears like I did. This 100% us bumping and fiddling and knocking stuff off the hill. I appreciate the detailed breakdown as well. I always struggle a bit with reforms in multi-combats. A lot to chew on with your reply here! Thank you very much for writing it all out @Boss_Salvage .

Longhorn Troops were useful but felt odd. They just feel a bit too expensive for what you are using them for, and using those points on more units could have prevented the encirclement concerns in both games. Running 2, or like, one per battlegroup could be a thing though maybe? Three troops was good for testing, but seemed like too much for a typical list. I don’t think you want to spam them unless you are going super-wise with Tribal units that can benefit from the Rally.

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Two more reports up! Sunday was 2300 points against Trevor aka Cartwright on the forum, testing out some Penitent-centric lists. you can read more about his thinking at his blog, but essentially Penitents will fill the field, Phoenixes will support and war machines kill things and apply pressure.

I brought the Abyssals. They have a lot of taller monsters and supporting pieces which would be good targets for the war machines and a good test of their efficacy. Up to test for me was mainly Succubi. My tournament partner back in June regarded the Succubi very highly, and I want to try and see his perspective.

Battle 079 was Raze
Battle 080 was Control

Summarizing both games, while the war machines did maim and or kill most of my taller units, they failed to win overwhelmingly or deliver consistently. The Succubi proved to be more effective than I thought they’d be, and most of the Penitent units fell without a chance to be healed. Very close games both times! I think the playstyle has potential and can catch folks off-guard, but I accidentally teched a little too hard against it, and the playstyle is missing a piece for greater consistency.

I am down to test this kind of stuff anytime. I had a wonderfully exhausting day trying to think through everything to workshop this idea, and had a blast. As we get into more tournaments and such, I think these kinds of thinking skills will be good to flex. A big thanks to @Cartwright for the games!

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