You had some though routs in that game. Your brutes having to go over an obstacle didn’t help either. Unfavourable terrain can really ruin The Herd’s game.
Agree on bringing the 3 hordes of brutes to bear. Being aggressive and instigating early in also a good insight.
My nightstalkers are also set up to be aggressive and I have found that I do much better if I go for it.
Fun game that swung back and forth. The skeleton regiments are just beefy enough at -/15 they take intention to kill. Makes for a fun way to run the Undead. I agree re Zuinok. Fun character and fun stats, but the actual performance has been somewhat lackluster.
Also agree on wights and soul reavers, but I feel like Undead have to decide between shambling and non shambling or you’re paying a heavy surge tax you can’t fully use.
That went well!
Going through woods rather than over obstacles made a huge difference. The guardians work well in pairs, so finding something else for the 3rd horde to do (or at least another angle to attack from) makes it much more worthwhile.
One tricky thing I’ve found with undead is that the low value units really just take up space. Hordes of zombies (for example) chaff and score fine, but they don’t make a flank much stronger offensively.
So it can feel like you have lots of units on a flank, but in reality half of them don’t really count.
In this game most of the Undead’s offensive power was contained in the centre and not supportedor supporting.
Thanks gents. Been a busy start to the year and I have kept on top of nothing, but very much appreciate the comments and feedback.
I do enjoy my struggles with trying to learn the Herd. The Halfling game was rough, but I was feeling like a pro against the Undead. The mid-range approach like this is difficult, as the Herd doesn’t have a lot of options besides charging. The next versions of this style list drops some Brutes and picks up Forest Shamblers and the Stampede, and I’ve slowly-but-surely been repairing my Lycan hordes over the last few months and want to try them out, especially with the performance of DarkBlack’s Werewolves recently!
I’m committed to running the Undead in a GT the weekend of the 20th. Two oddball test games will hopefully ready to post by the end of the weekend, and then (gasp) 5 more tournament games to post hopefully by the end of the month.
Definitely agree. With typically just heroes to unlock, I actually think the Undead can do without the sprawling hordes. While I haven’t had a chance to test them, I think Revenant regiments at -/17 could be really run to play around with in a Surge-centric list, and also think that clever troop play could be a lot of fun as well alongside Wights and such, as you can have a lot of Fearless chaff running around, gumming things up and enabling Surge Charges. More to come from the Undead from me!
On to the undead games!
Well done! Nice to see a list work as envisaged.
I’m not keen on that dwarf list. Despite the game being quite close at the end.
I learnt the hard way that dwarfs have De in spades, so the worry becomes damage output and threat projection.
This list does neither well.
One Golloch’s Fury can only do so much.
The artefacts on the Lords on Large Beast seem like a lot of points to buff 7 attacks. Brew of Sharpness should idealy be getting a unit to 10+ expected damage vs De 5+, but these only have 7 attacks.
They’re durable scenario units, but not hammers.
Interesting to compare notes!
Nice that your surge into the iceblade worked. 
You were more right about killing that cavern dweller in one go that you should have been. That was quite the comeback, hearthguard are the unit you want left for a comeback.
Since soul reavers got toned down, they’re only slightly more dangerous than wights. Harder to deliver though.
Wights can see and charge over infantry.
Mainly a matter of theme for me tbh.
Your burrowing worms keep tempting me to get one for myself! 
On the wraiths: even the troops can hold well against low damage units/chaff.
De 4+ without CS needs 12 attacks to do 1 damage at the odds, which life leeches back. 9 for Me 3+
Anything with decent attacks will get through -/12 easy though.
The regiments are 1 nerve from ironguard durability before factoring in life leech.
I see what you were getting at with the command orders.
Using werewolves as flankers means that shambling hasn’t been an issue, but for wraiths of revenant cavalry The Master’s will is amazing.
As is the extra drain life.
@Cartwright how did you like the Heal Ice Queen vs the Celestial Restoration Ice Queen?
It’s really hard for anything to kill a cavern dweller 1 on 1. It’s at best a 50-50 chance with a lot of downside.
I’m leaning towards heal instead of celestial restoration. Heal 5 with staff and command orders becomes effectively heal 7, and if on the Naiads a heal 8-9 because of frostbound. If the Naiads and cavern dweller are near each other, that’s an incredibly grindy middle.,I’ve debated putting blizzard on the queen to give the ability to clear chaff, but that probably would mean dropping the wings from the ice blade and I’m really reluctant to do that.
The New Year just won’t let up, but I’m still getting games in and still (mostly) keeping on top of reporting. Up now are two more Undead reports! Both were against the Northern Alliance of @Cartwright. The Northern Alliance has always been neat; the revamp a few years ago gave them some really nice options and I’m really digging his recent lists. While I like Celestial Restoration conceptually, it’s been hard to efficiently pull off. I think the Healing Ice Queen is stronger, and I am going the same route with my own Liche (Celestial Resto > Drain Life > the normal Heal).
Battle 107 was Push.
Battle 108 was Compass Points.
We’re both gearing up for the Northwoods GT. I decided on some Undead MMU, but was having trouble narrowing down some heroic choices. Lacking the time (and patience) to tweak half a dozen things with 5-10 points differences, I chose to change gears completely, running a bunch of Ghouls and then jamming in a bunch of heroic choices so I could everything all at once.
Thanks to Cartwright for the games! I’m switching back and taking the Skeleton Warrior Undead to a tournament this weekend, so more to come from the Undead soon! I also got one other random game in with Kingdoms of Men and their Command Dice this past weekend, and I will try to get that posted before the tournament.
…and we’re all caught up before the tournament!
My schedule has been just too much recently, but I had enough time for a one-game meetup this last weekend, and jumped at the chance … to run something completely different than the tournament list.
Battle 109 was Kingdoms of Men vs Brothermark, since I’ve actually yet to run the Men with the new Command Orders. I wasn’t a big fan of the list, and was really stretching things to just have a fun one-off game and explore as much as I could.
The game was still quite enjoyable, and was played against the TO of the tournament coming up this weekend, so I got some good insight about the tourney even though I wasn’t playing my list. The big tourney takeaways for me were:
More to come on the tournament games soon!
I really appreciate the reports, been a rough week for me with this head cold but starting the day with a batrep certainly helps 
I definitely prefer your skeleton bonk regiment spam to the ghoulsploration, but can’t fault you for giving them a try. I’ve run into a few weirdos in 3E that use ghoul troops, and have been interested in a tooled up horde before, however the ghast seems like the winner of the lot. And even then a rarity, as a vamp on horse isn’t wildly different and low key better at the same jobs.
Few thoughts / rules things from Game 107:
Thanks Boss. Always appreciate the rules insights.
I don’t know if he’ll be able to post his thoughts before the tournament. The Northern Alliance list was close to, but not the final list. The Blade / Mace were on the chopping block, and some other items and such were still being considered. Brutal on the Frostclaws could be worth considering in the future.
With my Scorched Earth choice, I definitely have some weird, semi-circular logic going and also just phrased it all quite poorly. With more difficult terrain and forests and such on the board, yes, we should generally have more hindered charges than usual. I am taking it to confound J Boots, and anyone with Pathfinding or Striding charges (like the Halflings from our club), or to mess with any clear charges that folks are working harder to get. I basically want every charge into me Hindered, if possible. I’m taking a number of Wraiths and two Burrower Wyrms, so I’ll have striding charge options, but I am taking the spell to try and make fights asymmetric.
I ended up dropping it in the final version. With blue, white, red (2), I get pretty consistent 4 or so CP each turn. The mace plus 1 CP and sword plus 1 CP means I can double-dip if they’re in combat constantly. I ended up not having them in combat enough to justify the blade/mace and instead dropped and will rely on CP for the boost.
On games 107 and 108:
Thanks for giving a ghouls a go and writing it up so that I now know too. I can see the troops and ghasts being handy budget vampire lords, but I agree on the regiments. Undead are spoiled for choice when it comes to expendable units though.
I agree with your approach to the lykanis (as discussed). I think it’s good that they can be expendable if need be, so perhaps better to put the command dice on the second line support heroes.
While I’m generally weary of expensive units, I’m getting the sense that Undead really need several good hammers.
A lot of the units that can gum things up don’t do much else, so you need to bring something that can take advantage of enemy units that are stuck/chaffed.
Thanks for the report! I always like seeing you Roman army.
So it goes. Every now and then little things add up on you. Especially if you’re tired and/or playing a casual game. That dragon had just enough mm twice. 
The main thing I don’t like about militia mob hordes is that I think militia mob are probably better off playing objectives and regiments can hold objectives just fine. If you kept the mob on the objective being a mob would have helped hold it against that dragon, though.
Something I would caution you to watch out for is suicide charges like with the giant on the left.
You know solo charges are not ideal, but I’ll add that solo charges that have to get a rout or get flanked and killed in return are throwing away a unit. Probably for nothing,
Thanks DarkBlack! I appreciate the comments and feedback.
You are 100% right to point this out. This list in particular did not support the Giants well, but I started noticing this trend more across all my armies too. My thinking was that if I could get a titan in for the initial charge when starting a piece trade, even if I don’t rout it, I can hopefully survive based on stats alone and come out on top. It panned out once against some Ratkin like, a year ago, and never really again since. Even in the rare cases I do win, the titan emerges badly maimed and barely standing, and then struggles to contribute the rest of the game. Mostly, my titan is just flanked and then swiftly and decisively bested, so it’s a habit I definitely need to break. I recognized this at the recent GT and made some progress throughout, but I’m sure it will take some time to rewire my thinking.
I think the most effective change would be to add a few more supporting units during list building, so that they can try and escort titans to their targets and block multi-charges into them.
With a lot of my lists in 2024, I noticed I’d often take extra chaff with extra points, but then I would chaff up a bunch of things all at once, and then loose hundreds of points for very little effect. Essentially, my chaff was rarely used wisely. Late 2024 I was consciously trying to pare down how much chaff I was taking, and now I’ve swung too far in the other direction, as demonstrated by the Giants-play. I think some of my Herd attempts are on the right track (Centaur troop for each Guardian Brute horde), and I think Trevor’s NA (Snow Foxes for each Hearthguard; usually one to block for the Frostclaws) is also smart. Figure out your hammers and then take just the chaff you need to protect it. We’ll see how that approach treats me in 2025, and hopefully the survivability of my titans improves!
And how! I’m digging my Skeleton Warriors, but we have some great options to hold the line and tokens and such. We also have a ton of fantastic troops (Revenant Cavalry, Wraiths, Mummies), and I want to start exploring some troop-heavy play more. There is a weird tension though in that my regiments are more expendable and the troops more valuable, and I still haven’t wrapped my brain about how to approach this in-games with the Undead. A more troop-heavy style looks like fun to play though, and probably what I will try to explore more next for the Undead, in addition to exploring more heroes.
There was an all-Zombie army around (I think it was in the UK?) a few years back, and I’ve seen a few copy-cat lists running an overwhelming amount of trash units and just swarming objectives to get wins, but I do still think it best that the Undead take some hammers and try to fight back during games. Fortunately we have some good options here as well! Both types of Wyrms have been fun in my experience, and Soul Reavers and Wights are both viable, depending on whether you want to bother with Surge or not.
The Undead definitely have some good options. Heros have been holding me back a bit as we have so many options. I’m looking forward to more reports from your dabbling!
January has been nuts, but most of the reports from the Northwoods GT are just about done now, and should be coming out rapid-fire this week. I’ll link them all here in a big post once they are all done, hopefully Friday/Saturday.
Thanks for the tournament reports @TastyBagel it’s been a real rough week for me and having them to start my day has been really nice. Some great games too, really nice to see your Undead MMU working as intended!
I don’t know anyone who is having a good week, month, or even good year so far. Playing in the tournament and stressing about dice rolls for a weekend was such a relief and a much-needed escape for me. Glad I can offer a little reprieve in turn. Chin up @Boss_Salvage ! You are in good company. We’ll make it through.
The reports for the Northwoods GT are all up now! It was a very enjoyable tournament. I got to play 4 new players and 3 (ish) new armies! (Brand new to Empire of Dust and Goblins; have technically played against Ogres before, but not in a large, proper game.) My list and the wild thoughts behind it are here, and the games are linked below.
Game 1 was against Hari and his Empire of Dust in Loot. This was a new army for me, and I knew I would struggle to account for everything while trying to learn everything at the same time. I had some early mistakes (the early suicidal charges noted by Darkblack), coupled with cold dice for me and generally hot dice for my opponent. This was a big loss, but still a very enjoyable game for me, and Hari would be the one to beat for my sportsmanship slash favorite opponent vote.
Game 2 was against Tyler and triple Giant Northern Alliance in Control. I can appreciate triple giants! I liked his list, but uh, spoilers, I guess. Mine list really locked in here.
Game 3 was against Jon and his all melee Ogres in Dominate. Jon was a tournament regular, and a very precise player. I was stymied by multiple Insane Courage results, and caught by a few “just barely in” moments against my units. Still, we whooped him for attrition points, and almost got this back. Some average dice on my right or less Insane Courage and I think I could have taken this game. Jon was great, but Hari was still the one to beat for sportsmanship.
Game 4 was against Neil and his Goblins in Invade. Neil ended up winning my vote for best opponent. New opponent; new army; and a draw is hard to beat in my book and we were grinning the whole time! This one too came down to some chilly dice from me, and a spike to beat my Wyrm. This could have been a win for me if the dice had been just a little better! I took lessons from Game 1 with Phalanx and suicidal charges and was really pleased with my play.
Game 5 brought us essentially full circle, and I was up against my frequent foe Trevor and his Northern Alliance, which had evidently taken some of my last-minute list-suggestions, and had had a better run than my Undead. We played Seek and Destroy. This was a tough scenario for me, and I think I spread out a little too much. I got caught with some “just in” moments here that I could not mitigate, and nothing went right for me in the early game. It ended up being a loss, but I somehow clawed it back, and this could have been a tie or even a win if dice had gone just slightly differently in any of a few possible spots at the end.
I never seemed to have good dice when it came to spells and the ranged phase, but overall, most things in the list worked as intended. Obviously there is always room for improvement in my play, but outside of Game 1, obvious mistakes were pretty minimal, and it often seemed to come down to luck and dice. The later games were all very close, and all of them were all very enjoyable, and against some good folks, so I can’t really ask for more from a tournament!
Fun game to finish out the tournament. Thanks for the writeup!
It felt like two games–the first three turns things went my way, and then the rest of the game you outplayed me by a lot and fought back to something that was a coin flip at the end. Well played and a great finish.
The wriath regiments is an interesting pick, curious to see how it does.
Playing against Empire of Dust is quite a learning curve. You think you’re off to a good start and then they grind you down. Damage jus doesn’t seem accumulate. Also a great example of how legendary units can define how an army plays.
The Revenant Champions do look unfair. They’re Me 4+, but the extra attack puts them on the same expected hits. 
Triple frost giants sounds cool on principle!
Great showing for wraiths in this game, I may need to get a few more of those…
A close game, helped by your not putting yourself on the back foot with turn 2 charges. 
The wraiths looked to be doing their job well again.
Morgoth seems handy with his dread and durability, but his spell selection doesn’t seem to be very impactful?
What a game! That old school army is splendid.
You mention the wraiths underperforming, which may be true damage wise, but it loooks to me that they did quite well in thier role of holding things upwhile softening them up with a bit of damage.
Better showing for Morgoth too.
That could have swung your way a bit more. It may be worth figuring our how he keeps those hearthguard safe until they can wreck stuff and doing the same with your soulreavers
@Cartwright I see you gave your Ice Queen Blizzard afterall.
As is proper.
Overall; I’m impressed by wraiths and glad to see that your wyrms survived long enough to be very useful in the late games.
Ooof, it’s been an incredibly busy month, with unfortunately no time for games nor even much hobbying. I still should have gotten this reply out sooner though! Thanks for reading and commenting @Darkblack. Revisiting some of the larger themes:
It was a great weekend, and I wish I could have pushed a few of these ideas further sooner, but unfortunately no February games for me. Hopefully I’ll get a few in during March!
I’m reading your last event had a veto/pick system in place for scenarios. I’m always happy to hear people use it! We had that in place when we organised our own event a year back and I believe it works wonders for evening out a tournament experience if the pools of the scenarios are balanced. Some games you just know you’ve lost only looking at the list and scenario (try winning Dwarfs in Dominate, I dare you) and the pick and ban worked wonders for us.
