Regnum Aeternum - Written Battle Reports for KoW 3rd Edition

Kings of War Battle Reports / Games
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Oh geez, replying 25 days later… time has definitely gotten away from me. Thanks for reading @Rune!
Yeah, I don’t know where the idea originally came from, but the TO has done this Veto/Pick selection at both of the tournaments he’s run over the last year, and I am totally here for it. It apparently is tougher to score on the back-end, since everyone is playing a different scenario so points end up just being W/L/T instead of a potentially wider spread, but picking the scenario adds a nice layer of planning game-to-game and I’ve enjoyed it. I’d definitely recommend folks try this out sometime!

Then, it’s been nearly 2 months away, but I finally made it back to the table recently. During my time away from the table I didn’t get much hobbying in either, but I did manage to repair my Lycans and so I wanted to test them out, and explore some troop-heavy play again, so I brought the Herd back out.

Battle 115 was against Joe’s new elite, human-centric Northern Alliance force. Joe’s got a lot of army ideas, and it was need to see one hit the table and look so good – I really liked all the plank bases he went with.

Battle 116 was against Rob and his Ravenous Halflings. This is always a touch match-up, but every Nerve check against me was 9+ and with a lot of small troops on my side of the table, it was a very quick game.

  • As discussed in DarkBlack’s necromantic thread, Lycan units take some finesse, and one really needs to be using their speed to get around enemy lines instead of charging into the front sooner. I tried a few different approaches with them. The first was deploying on the wings to pressure and threaten flanks, which worked well. The second was centrally, trying to project threat through the center. The latter approach didn’t work, as I had nothing to really back up the Lycans, and no significant presence on the wings. Going forward I think I want to prioritize moving/threatening with them over charging, and think moving them to threaten flank/rear charges will do more for me than actually getting them into combat. Overall, I’d reinforce for takeaways elsewhere, namely that the Lycans are not a hammer and won’t hard-carry your list to victory with brute-force.
  • Troop-heavy play was fun, but a little risky. It was a bit of a rock-paper-scissors result here, with troops besting the elite list since I can chaff them up, but losing to lists with more ranged damage output, since they can pick my troops off and turn them into a liability. Generally-speaking, 6 troops is probably a bit much, but Harpies, Trappers, and Hunters all have differing roles and I haven’t quite settled on exactly what I like yet.
  • The Wiltfather continues to perform for me. Available in several armies, he’s got a reputation and demands your opponent come up with a plan. Even with my opponent actively avoiding him, Cloak of Death helped, and he was able to contribute.
  • The Avatar of the Father is still alluring, but I have not found his niche yet. He’s been unlucky, but I also can’t help but also conclude I’ve been using him poorly. I think he gets better the more speed you have in a list, and that’s not something I’ve explored much. I think he might have some play with Lycans as well, so we’ll continue to swap him in here and there and see if we can find a home for him, and I’ve already got some ideas coalescing.
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Thanks for the games! A welcome respite from work, and always nice to see your Herd out and about. Your current builds are more towards my take on the army (hammers of different flavors + useful friends) - I dig ‘bruiser’ as the name for the list archetype :+1:

I’m pretty sure y’all played on the infamous "c_ck and b_lls’ Epic Dwarf map :sweat_smile:

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It’s a rough one to navigate with the nearly 3’ of LOS blocking terrain. Very cool NA army! Agree on wedging Hrimm in!

I’m looking to finally run the Father next time I take my Herd out, so naturally I’m always rooting for yours (he had this moment(s) this game!)

On your shiny new Lycans, I feel like you proved why I always give them +1 CS or +1 Me. They’re a little pillowy without a boost, but De 4+ means they’re pretty soft when the enemy gets to hit them back (or first :grimacing: )

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That’s the one! My inner child was amused, but it’s a bizarre map…

I’ll be quite interested to see how your Avatar performs for you. I think there’s something there, but I haven’t quite found it yet. I have a few more list ideas for him though, and hope to get to those games in soon to share.

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That was a great sowing for The Herd, with almost all of your unis doing what they do best.
Declining the triple charge to avoid a kill or die one of your units was sensible, a shame that you didn’t get the benefit.

Agreed on the Lycans and the same goes for werewolves. This game really showed how to do well with them, but also not. :sweat_smile: Still the horde that got stomped did do something useful
It’s rare for both flanks to have space to nimble around things, perhaps there isn’t enough opportunity for both each game. Maybe a horde and a lykanis/alpha is the way to go. :thinking:
It seems strange to me when people insist that a Sp9 nimble unit should be judged on damage output, especially in a shambling and generally slow army like Undead,

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A tough list and a tough opponent.

Those nerve checks and getting the drop on your lycans like that is rough.

I think that you would have done better if you didn’t spread out so much. Try concentrating your force such that anything that kills one of your units will take a charge in response. You will not always be able, but trying to will help you to be in good positions.

Another tactic worth considering for werewolf/lycan hordes is in the second line. Especially if there isn’t space to threaten flanks and dodge arcs.
Being fast nimble and able see over infantry helps lycans/werewolves charge around your units and look for sneaky charges as the game gets messy. Alternatively it protects them so that they can finish off weakened enemies or grab objectives in the late game.

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These posts are touching on a lot of ideas that have been swirling around my head, but that have been hard for me to put into words. I think seeing these ideas in rapid succession helped, and things have been percolating for a few days now, so hopefully I can make some better sense of my thoughts here.

I’d 100% agree. I think Lycans, Werewolves, the Fallen, maybe even Scorchwings and other speedy units are not hammers, and are being judged in ways they should not be.

Obviously, positional advantage is harder to discuss as it is has so many more variables to consider. However, I think even the positional discussion eventually gives way to discussions on damage dealin’, as you need to put your advantage to use in a combat. I think of something like KoM Mounted Scouts for me from a few years back, where I would go through a lot of effort to get them into clever places, and then get the flank/rear charges I was looking for, only to have them contribute nothing and the combats fail. Since the Lycans and such will be trying to make charges in-game, their damage output does matter do a degree. However, since it is not a big scary hammer unit, their output should be less of a focal point that it tends to be in most discussions.

I think my future reporting will try to emphasize the options I try to give these units, what my opponent does in response, and then trying to evaluate whether those were good tactics to pursue. That’ll be case-by-case and turn-by-turn, but I think centering my efforts there instead of math would be helpful as I continue to explore this style of unit.

I think this is the crux of everything bouncing around my head. It’s easy to say “this unit needs to get flank charges” but I feel like that is so hard to consistently do. It’s rare to have a bananas drop advantage, so it’s harder to catch someone out with a late unit of unopposed and outriding Lycans. Additionally, I feel like most scenarios are forcing players to spread out as well, so even if you do get the Lycans out on a wing, it’s still going to be hard to get them past/around/behind/through enemy lines to where it can be charging from an ideal position.

In short, the Lycans and such are a support unit that needs to be getting flank/rear charges in order to have good damage output, but these charges are hard to currently achieve consistently. Since they are getting ideal charges and situations so infrequently, the unit becomes even harder to evaluate in any nuanced context, and so discussion veers towards damage output and “these are bad hammers” instead of “we’re using these wrong.”

I’m going to go overboard with the Lycans for my next few Herd games, but suspect you and @Boss_Salvage are on the wiser path here with the “pillowy” Lycans. :grin: Since one is paying a lot for the speed of Werewolves and Lycans, I think taking fewer hordes would likely make things smoother overall. The other points can go into actual combat units, and you only need to worry about getting your one speedy horde into clever positions. Additionally, a Brew of Strength would boost the output of that unit, making flank charges even more effective, but also letting you get a little more out of the unit if the board is crowded and you can’t quite find those flanks. That seems like a wiser, more calculated approach to running a unit like this, so I’ll be the contrarian and sprint in the opposite direction for a bit.

That “deterrence” approach probably works best and easiest for the heroes, as you are taking a tried-and-true tactic for nimble, square-based heroes and adding more speed.

However, deterrence could definitely be something for the hordes as well depending on the match up, the rest of one’s own list, and how patient you are. Given the points already made above here, you might be on to something, using these as late-game outriders, instead of early game ones.

Lots and lots to think about!

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@TastyBagel reading the new report, but wanted to toss this at you before I closed the tab:

^ Dash28 Live Battle Report: 2022 US Masters Round 1 - Keith Conroy vs Patrick Zoro Allen

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Thanks Boss, you beat me to my own update! This dumb year of 2025 is not slowing down in the slightest and it’s been a nutty couple of weeks hot on the heels of a nutty couple of months. Catching up slightly on my forum-posting here, semi-recently, I got in Battle 117 against the Brothermark in Control.

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Cartwright continued iterating on his own Penitent-play, but ran more of a combined arms list this time, including three Heavy Arbalests, and dropping to just two supporting Phoenixes.

I ran the Herd, drawing inspiration from Keith Conroy’s 2020-2021 lists, of which the 2021 version won US Masters. In that vein, I was using Lycans, a Spirit Walker horde and Flying Beasts, as well as the Avatar of the Father to just try and be aggressive.

  • Lycans were fun, but the game really showed why you want to give them waver-mitigation items. The hordes and items were good, and the regiments were ok, and worth playing around a bit more with.
  • Beasts and the Avatar were all good, though I don’t think I was nearly aggressive enough with them.
  • Alpha Strike was a hard style to play, but should really reward good positioning and threat assessment. I think ideally, from Round 2 onward, this kind of list should be able to charge anything it wants to. But, in order to do that, I need to be advancing more in my Round 1, whether I’m going first or second. A challenging playstyle for sure, but a decent first attempt at it.

Prior to the game, I did not do a lot of due diligence. There were a few threads here, and here with some light discussion. But as Boss notes, there were actually videos of the 2021 event. Keith stayed on the top tables so we see lots of the army, but the coverage isn’t as comprehensive as I would have liked, since the video bounces between several tables, and the commenters aren’t even sure what unit it what half the time. The final game was more helpful though, and there was also a nice Dash28 video of a UB game that was very insightful, as well as the Counter Charge Herd episode, which puts a lot of his thoughts into context alongside the rest of the army. I intuited things pretty accurately, but these other sources are helpful, and we’ll see what else I may stumble upon as I play around with this for the next few Herd games.

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Thank for the report, that was a wild game.

The fast herd looks great, though it is a playstyle that takes some getting used to.
Add high damage hammer unit might help though.

I think you would do better if you concentrate your force more. By force I mean your damage dealers. Have the delay troops and flankers spread out, but the hordes working together on one target area of the battlefield.
You didn’t need all those unit on the left and most of the spent a turn heading right anyway.

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We’re going to play again this weekend, so he might have another shot (or two) to iterate if he runs the Herd…

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I am so very far behind in my forum postings! Quickly regarding the speedy Herd, I think I want to generally deploy wide to leverage the speed and angles. I don’t have a ton of drops, so if I am too concentrated, I risk having my opponent opposite me and making flank charges harder. But point taken on cooperation. I could do Spirits + Lycans and have the third horde flanking or something. I have 5ish lists to play around with here, and much more coming at some point. It’s a fun but wild playstyle and takes some getting used to for sure.

Then, Kings of War Wisconsin has another escalation League going, but we’ll ignore those games for now. I’m running Varangur for the early, Ambush-level games, and then hoping to do some hobbying and give some new Abyssals a try as the games start getting larger. Should have two more League games this weekend, and can cover them all next week. For now, just sharing the recent “proper” games against @Cartwright from last weekend, with my Undead MMU vs his combined-arms Bromark.

Battle 120 in Protect and Raze
Battle 121 in Invade

As-ever, I had a great time, and as a bonus, the games were really engaging! Looking at the lists I wasn’t expecting to do well with my Undead vs shooting, but both results for both games were contested and close. My takeaways:

  • Mhorgoth is still really strong for this style. Surge didn’t have a ton of targets, but still found some uses; the Soul Reavers liked Bane Chant; Drain Life was impactful against Penitents; and Ming Fog was nice to attempt and even got a rout. The biggest boon was probably still Fly + Dread, letting him sneak around the field as a hard-to-catch force multiplier for me. He’s strong, and I don’t think I even used him to his full potential here.
  • Soul Reavers are strong, and I liked having three. I didn’t use these particularly well and they didn’t do anything outrageously good, but the low height let them hide from the Heavy Arbalests in ways that my Burrowing Wyrms could never do, and even if they didn’t get much actual killing done themselves, I think they were used well in the given scenarios.
  • Vampire on Pegasus still seems expensive for what you get, but was a great unit these games. Fly and the 20” charge gave them a lot of reach and made my opponent think, and they proved to be quite the distraction, even if they feel a little overpriced.
  • The Lykanises kept contributing over the expected damage results, so it’s hard to properly evaluate them, but with the flying Vampires serving as the main distractions in this list, they got some great charges in, particularly in the second game.
  • Undead Heroic Units were strong together. I’ve run a duo of Lykanises and a duo of flying Vamps before, but the double duo was really strong and fun to play.
  • Mummies / Trolls / Rev Cav / Wraiths are all fun units all similarly costed. Wraiths are probably still my favorite, though all can find a niche. I’m not sure these are the best picks for an MMU style of list though, and want to try out some Deathpack, if I can ever find the time to hobby them up.
  • Undead MMU is still a lot of fun to play! Gaming is a bit of a privilege, but I still had way more fun with the list than I was expecting to. While the Undead are known for low-quality grinding hordes, we don’t often make use of the extra unlocks, so regimental play is definitely viable.

Great games here! More are on the calendar, so I should have more reports coming soon!

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Great games and I was genuinely surprised at the outcome in the first match! MMU is a really engaging way to play the game, more moving parts is more better.

A thing from the second match, when your vampasus who killed the arbalest was hunkering down to spend an eternity fighting Brothermark heroes:

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^ the scene after the vampasus (facing right) has been countered by the ogre captain and the bowmen horde is locked in place by the lykanis. In your turn, you could have charged the H4 vampasus into the rear of the bowmen, escaping the ogre captain and very likely killing the archers, freeing both undead baddies up to continue their rampage about 2-3 turns earlier. Not a rules error or anything, just a thing I noticed as the game progressed.

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Oooo, interesting. Thanks @Boss_Salvage! I’m still grappling a bit with nimble heroes, as they are just so super-sneaky. That obviously did not occur to me in-game, and means Height 4 is a nice buff, making them a bit harder to contain. Neat. Thanks!

Then, I managed to squeeze in an unexpected normal game in recently against Cartwright and his newest speedy Northern Alliance list.

Battle 122 can be found here.

I don’t want to burden him playing against all my “throwback” Herd lists over the next few months… but since he was running a different army and I had little else prepared, I brought the next one out. We’ll see if we can point the remainder of the lists at some different players though. I’m still accruing my thoughts on these lists overall, but generally speaking:

  • Speed continues to be about as troublesome for him as it is for me! With so much speed there is a lot to consider and weigh, and ultimately I was a little overwhelmed at a few points, and a little too cavalier at a few others. Knowing what to focus on will come with more experience.
  • The Lycan hordes still don’t hit particularly hard, but the mounted Druids do seem like decent support for them. Again I think Boss’ observation that they are pillowy and one horde with Brew of Strength is probably easier to manage… but still learning the style I want to overload the lycans, see what they can do, and then pare it back to something more sensible. In this vein, one Druid is probably the way to go as well, as unlocks are tight.
  • Three Lycan Hordes felt more meatier and more reliable than just the original 2. Alpha strike lists are juggling a lot, and I just want some more things on the table. I tried to keep things a little closer together this time, and had some decent success. Getting out-dropped made deployment difficult though, as I didn’t want to
  • Moonfang was fun, the Regen 4+ is nuts, and I can see why folks liked him so much in army reviews and such. It seems that with his speed he should be able to pick his target and with Regen survive the game. Seems like a solid pick with the prevalence of heroic scoring units.

As always, it was a great time, and I was very happy that we were able to squeeze in such a good game on short notice!

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Think concentration of force rather than units. You can go wide with flankers, but concentrate the heavy hitters to overwhelm a part of the battlefield.

Well fought! Well done on the good scenario play.

I like the way you used the double lykanis. The vampires seem expensive when a lykanis can do almost the same job. Flying is nice though.
I’m not sure about the mummies.
Regen has much better value for higher nerve units, so I think you’re missing what makes them good by not taking regiments.

Well done again! Your soul reavers and lykanis were used well.

I like the zombie trolls more than the mummy troops. More speed and US is more likely to come in handy than durability that troops can’t make the most of.

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Fair points!

I think you re-explain it well. I think my brain hurdle is that everything in the Herd list wants to be a flanker! :rofl: So many nimble units… I have a few more Lycan-heavy lists to get through, but was considering revisiting Centaur Striders and such, which would mean more direct fighters, and better multi-charges and concentrations of force, as suggested.

On the small Undead units … it’s so cool that we have such a tight cluster of fun units here, and it definitely seems worth exploring. I think they could all have niche uses, but won’t shine until they get put in other lists. I don’t think this MMU approach really wants these expensive troops-sized units; I’d rather have actual chaff (Deathpack) and more units, like the cheap skeletons. Maybe a high US list focused on grinds and defensive play could mess around with the small unit idea more?

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I see the problem! :sweat_smile:
There is a difference between small flankers to cause trouble and more expensive units though.
While I don’t think lycans/werewolves should be judged on their damage output, having units that are there for damage is good too.

Have you tried having guardian brutes with lycans.
For example: 2 hordes of brutes to do damage in a battlegroup with a horde of lycans to project extra threat and/or threaten flanks to make it harder to deal with the brutes.

Lycan alphas could do a similar job to your lykanis?

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This is essentially how my Herd works :wink: With the Stampede doing threat projection / flank work as well. And I’m a big fan of a Lycan Alpha, tho less of a Moonfang fan (I get mine killed all the time having accomplished what feels like nothing).

Thanks for another report so soon after the last ones! I was genuinely holding my breath with some of those combats that the Herd needed to win or die (and shared your frustration in a few cases). I feel like you got a lot out of your Beasts, when they weren’t being robed by the dice gods …

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I think that you did well, despite the result. You’re getting the hang of this style. While I admire your sportsmanship, I think the insane courage of the heartguard was bad luck that cost you the game.

I was also thinking that a more cost effective infantry horde would be better. It’s a big target and often the only one in reach, so less investment and/or better durability makes sense to me.
Not having an infantry horde at all makes sense too, I remember dropping mine back when I played alpha strike Varangur.

Something to sit on objectives would also help. The late game was harder for you than your opponent because the dwarfs put them a point ahead. Your burn everything approach didn’t help IMO. You could have held two objectives on the left.

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You both are giving some great suggestions, but you are maybe 3-5 games ahead of my testing schedule here. :sweat_smile: I sketched out about a half dozen of these “throwback” lists out back in January and just haven’t been able to get them played in a timely manner due to real life. So I’ve got a few lists left to go, overloading on Lycans still while testing out things like the Avatar, Moonfang (both done) with the Wiltfather, multiple Lycan Alphas, and Druids with additional spells coming up, with at least one version apiece.

I think I’ll try and condense those remaining lists though, to speed things along. While I wanted to explore alpha strike lists here, the overall goal is to get to a more “balanced” Herd, which is more my style, and which all these suggestions are pointing me towards as well. I appreciate all the advice and hope to put it to use soon!

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The games and reporting and ping-ponging continues, and this time we are bouncing on over to the long-neglected Varangur. Kings of War Wisconsin has a new escalation league going on, and I’ve been brining the Varangur for our opening Ambush-level games. I didn’t really play the army much in 2024, and wanted to get them on the table more instead of starting a new army. I’ve played three league games so far:

Battle 118 Varangur vs Orcs in Invade

Battle 119 Varangur vs Halflings in Invade

Battle 123 Varangur vs Undead in Push

It’s Ambush, so dice can matter more than anything, and it doesn’t take much to get an advantage and then snowball it to victory. We won’t dissect play or decisions too harshly. My lists have all been pretty soft, not taking much inspiring and leaning into Varangur shooting options instead of running any nasty combat units or monsters, and my goal has trying to see if there is a niche for axes.

  • Bows on Night Raiders (and Horse Raiders) seem like the better default ranged weapon option. The extra range lets them control more of the board, makes them more independent, and gives more chances to shoot under any pressure. The bows make the unit easier to use conceptually, as if you are under pressure and can charge out, that is clearly the better option the majority of the time, thanks to Pathfinder and TC.
  • Axes on Night Raiders is really finicky, and you are likely only getting one throw in most cases. The short range means you can either throw or charge when things get dicey, but you need to be planning ahead, and supporting the Raiders, because they are not going to be enduring many combats themselves with just Def3. Troops and axes, acting as chaff for other units (Hearthguard, etc) could be a thing, but regiments and axes don’t seem like a great idea.
  • For Horse Raiders, again, axes and troops seem viable as fighting chaff blocking for Mounted Sons or Frostfang Cavalry, but bows are safer and better for harassment.

In short, I think theoretically, axes could have uses in specific, more aggressive builds. I don’t think those builds are for me though, and even so, Snow Foxes are already great chaff. So my Raiders will be taking bows more often than not.

And then in other findings, I am running Snow Troll Primes now, and can confirm that they are as tanky for me as they have been for my opponents, and are worth checking out. Also, moving and shooting with Magus Conclaves (even just one) has been fun, and is something I’ll be sure to revisit in larger Varangur games later this year.

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