Regnum Aeternum - Written Battle Reports for KoW 3rd Edition

Battle Reports / Games
144

These reports have convinced me to rethink my auto-cleaver stance with Giants. I do think that’s the default with some Giants (like Coral Giants, where Kraken have rampage already) but there’s a lot more cav in the game, and the logic that Giants are already good into big stuff is sound. Those things also have lower nerve than the infantry hordes that you need more attaks to chew through.

Anyway! Thanks for the report! Nice list :wink: That rat army is great and I really enjoyed reading his blog, so thanks for linking to it as well. Wish I had a way to put it on a feed? And I can’t find a subscribe button either :confused:

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145

Thanks for breaking down the Giant’s charges @DarkBlack!

If you roll super hot for everything, getting an outfitted Giant fighting against their preferred target can go very, very well, but if I mathed right on average the expected damage only looks to be about 2 above an outfitted Giant fighting the wrong target: Hitting on a 4+ really bottlenecks those extra attacks.

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@Boss_Salvage is also dancing around the thought I was struggling to express in the conclusions: I think the target’s Nerve probably has been an unacknowledged factor in the perceived effectiveness of Giants and Slayer. Many monsters and monstrous units tend to top out at around 17-18 Nerve. Kitted out and fighting the ideal target, Giants could wallop these with some lucky dice. Quickly cutting through infantry hordes with around 22-23 max Nerve though was harder to do. However, lots of normal cavalry have 15-16 for their top Nerve (elites like Soul Reavers get up to 17), so Rampage Giants with hot dice can look really well fighting cavalry regiments, like my one Giant did here in this game.

Reading through the math here, just drives home how much I’ve been misusing my Giants. I think every game I run them I say I should support them and then don’t. Off they charge, by themselves, blending as good as they can and trusting in their high Nerve… but banking on extra attacks and good rolls is not a good idea. They should be supported better. We’ll see if I actually manage to do that next game.

I couldn’t figure out how to get it on a feed either. As I understand it, it’s his own website, so their is probably some back-end thing he needs to enable to get that going. We’ll see if @SquirminVermin visits the forum soon and sees this, and if not I’ll ask him about it. I thoroughly enjoyed reading through it as well, and it would be good to get some more exposure for it.

edit:

I forgot to address the Foot Guard. I have run them just twice in 2023, in both of these December games. So, both times, they were deployed back as a bit of a reserve unit. They haven’t even taken 1 point of damage yet. Good efficiency suggestion on the IW instead of Chalice @Darkblack! I think I could probably take that a step further as well and run these as Pole-Arms or Shield Wall and save some more points. That might be a good competitive idea.

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146

Battle 046
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@Cartwright and I took some of our lesser-played armies for an outing recently, and it was a great way to cap off 2023 for me for Kings of War. You can read about Battle 046 here.

Cartwright didn’t have too many dwarven units, but it was nice to see a wide variety of things on the table. The roster is deeper than I though, and the new Grotesques are mean! He also ran a variety of spells, and I believe made use of everything except Heal by the time the game wrapped up.

The Undead tried the Shambling Blight formation, which meant Zombie Legions hit the table! They can take a beating, but that doesn’t seem like a competitive formation. The Undead have a lot of options, but I don’t think I brought enough scary hammer units, and I had trouble with high Defense of the Dwarfs. Still, I had a great time and it was fun to take a new army for a spin!

A big thank you to Cartwright for fitting in the game!

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147

Super fun game! Thanks for fitting in on short notice.

The Undead didn’t have much that could handle Def 6. Alchemist’s curse, multiple wight hordes, soul reaver infantry–something was needed to get damage. The zombie legions were resilient and did fine, but they can’t damage anything. I was worried you’d pin me in place and surge into flanks, so I was very conscious of not engaging unless I felt I could take you off.

Good game!

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148

My rats got Trevor’s NA giant on Saturday. Shock troop horde in hindering terrain with plague pots for ensnare. Rolling 12 for attacks, but hitting on 5s he couldn’t hurt them, even with a regiment of dwarves and some trolls helping (hitting on 6s). The NA got tarpitted and the Hackpaws got on the flanks and cleared that section out. Trevor still won the scenario mostly thanks to his cavern dweller overrunning with a token in turn 6. Giants are very good at threatening and influencing movement, but the Me4 does give them some limitations, especially against ensnaring.

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149

Yeah, me4 plus ensnare is painful. Especially when facing an army with a lot of heal. When I didn’t break you on the first charge, I probably should have thrown in the towel and come up with a plan B.

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150

Thanks for one last report for 2023! Always cool to see new armies make an appearance.

On the Undead, I was immediately drawn to rejigger the hero support. After some tinkering, I think I’d change the Liche King into a lute ASB (whose wild charge works on the Rev Cav!), pick up mounts for the Rev Kings (who I’m still hot for) to get the most from their surge and their disordering melee (wild charge works on them too!), and give the Necro hex in addition to his surge. I keep thinking about swapping the surge to vicious aura, because you’ve got the formation in there, but after dropping the Liche it’d be good to have a third surge around.

The stripped down new Liche King is interesting but kind of sad that only Sp 7 and -/14 have stuck around out of all of their previous passive bonuses, though apart from fly I guess those are the relevant abilities from before. I’m sure you can do interesting stuff with the a la cart options but I suspect there’s a point where you just take Mhorgoth as you head towards a speed Liche spellslinger build.

EDIT: You know, thinking about it for 10 seconds, this is probably the main LK build now:

155 Liche King - Boots of Levitation, Alchemist’s Curse (4)

Maybe you slap a cheapo library spell on there (hex, maybe mindfog, host if you’re cool) but it’s probably just another uncatachable AC4 nuke :roll_eyes:

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151

Thanks for the report!
Took me a bit to get to it, but appreciated.

Interesting for me because I’m dithering about giving undead a go. I have 3000 points of undead on sprues in my cupboard and I’m not sure if I’m going to paint them or sell them.

This has moved the needle a bit more toward paint.

I agree with @Cartwright that you can do with some more damage output.
Revenant cavalry don’t quite do it as they come.
As a dwarf player, I can assure you that Alchemist’s Curse is very dangerous and a good pick for something like a lich.

I like the look of the revenant king too, but wish they had 5 att.

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152

Thanks all. That was a great last game for 2023, but 2024 has been a bit of a kick in the teeth so far. Should be bouncing back soon. I think there will be a game or two intervening before I return to the Undead (maybe a few more reports can help DarkBlack decide!), but yeah, lots to consider and I appreciate the posts and ideas, especially on the heroes, as the Rev Kings just aren’t the good all-comers I thought they were.

On those Revenant Kings… I really with they were like, Melee 4+ with 5 attacks base. The Undead have all the Surge tricks to fight fliers though, and while -/14 Nerve is nice, he isn’t mighty, and it doesn’t seem ideal to charge out your source of Inspiring to disorder something, though if you run a ton of Revenant Cavalry or things with TC, I could see where a Mount would be attractive for him…

I feel like his niche is supporting a hammer unit? Around to Inspire and hard to snipe. Maybe Surge the scary thing into a flank. And if all else fails, he can charge in alongside the scary unit for a little extra damage? I’ll need to play around with him more. He isn’t useless, but isn’t quite as versatile as I had hoped.

On the Liche King, I think Boss and Darkblack are hitting on the big takeaways. If you buy too much for him, you may as well just take Mhorgoth. But with the new a la cart changes, and even with the hike to the spell and the nerf to the Boots / Mount, this Liche is a splendid candidate for Alchemist Curse + Boots given his high base speed.

I should explore the other spells more at some point though. Alternatively, I think a basic Drain Life Liche King could also pair well with something a Horde of Revenants? Horde with Hammer of Measured Force + DL Liche to support would be a nightmare to shift on the battlefield.

Necromancers were neat, but I gotta play around more with spells to get the most out of them I think. The aura is super cool and fluffy, but it’s good points chasing bad to buff just regular Zombies. A Necro with the aura supporting Goreblights and Zombie Trolls though… that would be worth experimenting with!

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153

When I play against undead a Revenant King looks quite handy.

As someone with no experience actually playing undead:
Their odds of doing at least 1 damage are decent (but not certain), which does let them block things up.
They also seem handy at being in the way and doing things like attacking a flank so that a unit can’t withdraw.
They’re not easy to get rid of.

They are the cheapest hero that can get surge and inspiring without an artefact.
So if you want 3 cheapish individuals with surge and inspire then: necromancer with talisman, standared bearer with loot and Revenant King with surge upgrade.

Perhaps more importantly, it’s a use for a potentially cool model!

Also lets you play an all skeleton/actually undead list. If you want to.
I have a vague notion of a narritive ambush list of all skeletons and “ghosts” led by a Revenant King, after some treasure hunters disturb an ancient barrow…

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154

Sorry to hear that. I hope everything is ok and things get better soon.

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155

Thank you. Thankfully, I am trending back towards some normalcy now. I even got a game in with the Herd the other day, and should have that report up soon!

On the Revenant Kings, you make good points as always. I definitely don’t think they are useless, they just aren’t overpowered enough to be a clear go-to, and that is probably a good thing and a win for game balance. I think most players are going to be running a mix of supporting characters. I think your trio would be a great place to start for anyone getting started with the Undead; each of those has a role and unique options depending on where one wanted to take the army.

…And I still need to catch back up on your Tales. I will try and make some time for that this week. Always nice to see them in action and I hope you get more games in soon! …maybe even with some new Undead toys! That sounds like a great idea for a little collection. Cheers!

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156

Battle 047
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The week was a little busier than expected, but I was able to finish up the report from my latest game against Cartwright. Battle 047 can be found here.

The Northern Alliance got some updates in 2023, but we hadn’t given those changes a real look until now. My opponent brought a neat combined arms list looking to explore the Frozen special rule, while my Avatar of the Father model finally hit the table, along with some Guardian Brutes, since the lovely Longhorns got a rework in the recent Clash update.

The scenario was the new Hold the Line, which was pretty neat. With the scoring band in the middle of the field I think some armies could have fun with Windblast and the like as the game concludes. Here, the speedy Herd tried playing for the outer zones while the more defensive Northern Alliance aimed to secure the center and an adjacent zone. The game was a bit on the shorter side, but still was a great time with plenty for me to learn!

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157

Thanks for the fun game and great report!

The Herd seem pretty boom or bust. When you’ve won with them, it seems to be a big win. But when the HOTW got spiked and shot off, things started to snowball quickly. You had a few rolls that went against you, and the Herd don’t have a big margin for error. They’re fast, but I think I’m not skilled enough to pilot something that requires so much finesse.

I love my snow trolls and STP. I also think downgrading from the Lords on FF to Thegns was worthwhile. Still playing around with the new units. I’m debating a cavern dweller as chaff with its lifeleech 3. Expect to see that coming your way soon.

Thanks as always for the fun game!

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158

Glad to see your Herd on the table again! And your great Father at last!

But wow, commiserations on that snake eyes with him :grimacing: I think you had the ability to envelop the NA more than you did here, tho strong agree on Scorchwings and all these fast little units being a brain drainer.

One thing, in Turn 3 I’m quite sure your Brutes could have flanked the Frosthegn:

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If the Hunters countered the Troll, looks like they would have slid down enough to leave the Thegn’s flank open, once the Druid moved out of the way. And if that slide wasn’t enough, if they countered the Thegn they would have slide to make room for the Brutes to flank, thanks to the errata on how EZ charges work.

This would have vaporized the Frosthegn, which feels better for the Brutes than doing token damage into the Naiad horde from hell (ensnared Brutes is the worst, especially when they’re phalanx too). The Brutes take a gnarly charge off the hill from the Naiads next turn (like 10 damage expected) but Hrimm is left out to dry once again. Of course, in this magical future the Father didn’t snake eyes the Dwarfs :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway! I like the Herd list, double Brutes feels good and I actually think the regiment game works here. The Hydra is obviously the loser of the list but it actually might be good to have around to carry tokens, as the rest of the list suffers pretty badly if it holds a token (my own Herd is facing this problem now). I think Hunters are fairly mediocre on the whole but they’re honestly decent for the points, just maybe don’t scout outside of inspiring next time (could include a Forest Warden to hang out with them if that’s something you do want to do).

EDIT: Possibly my only list note, what about dropping the Chieftain and picking up the Silent Hunt again? It’s cute but Softhoof could be good with all the scouting you’ve got going on.

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159

Oooo, that is a good catch @Boss_Salvage! I think the countercharge of the Hunters were some of the first moves made that turn, and opted not to grind against the Prime with Regeneration. The Brutes were some of the last moves, and I don’t think it occurred to us to rewind things to give them some better options. I would still be in a rough spot, but smashing the Thegn would have been so much more preferable here. Alas. Good eye!

Like Cartwright noted, my Herd has been performing with little margin for error and a fair bit of luck needed to win. It seems I don’t have quite the finesse required for them yet either! Being a bit of a scatter-brained gamer, I have 1-2 more Herd lists to test before I go back to the drawing board with what I’ve learned so far. The Guardian Brutes seem like pretty good substitutes for the Longhorns though, and should give the list some hitting power. They will likely be early adds in those new lists. Scout Moves I just need to get better at. Though swapping out the Chieftain for the Tracker (formation or not) seems like a great idea given my last few games. Thanks for the suggestion!

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160

Thanks for the report!

That snake eyes was rough!

On the list: I think that trappers really need ensnare.
So, I’m sorry to say, I would take them in the formation or not at all.
Edit: at 115 points they don’t need to achieve much though.

I’m not sure what the rolls were, but having them in the formation in this game probably would have held up the right flank attack for another turn and put some damage on those units.

The hunters of the wild don’t appear to be adding much to the list. If you want something durable, you already have the hydra and could take the new longhorns to harden your line more effectively.

The hunters on the right ended up hanging back with the brutes anyway, so why not rally the brutes too?

Either the hydra or one of the hunter regiments could be something that deals damage instead…

I have never been able to get a dragon type unit to do enough to justify it’s points either. :sweat_smile:

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161

When they scout plus get turn 1, you’ve had great success. But they’re so fragile that even a minor setback snowballs quickly, IMO. I’m not patient enough to find angles and force favorable trades, which I think is a key to getting good results from them.

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162

Y’all are making some solid arguments for the Silent Hunt. It is still a quirky formation, but looks like it will work with how I’ve been running my Herd. I will squeeze those into the next Herd test lists.

I really liked the Longhorns for what they were previously, as it reinforced the glass-cannon playstyle approach I associated with the Herd… but I should probably add the new version to the list of things to test. The Hunters of the Wild haven’t been great, but I have a few more things to try with them before I reset my approach to the Herd.

Yeah, they have have moments in a few games, but those “heavy fliers” just haven’t worked out in any of the games I’ve played. Centerpiece models are fun though, and I’m curious to see if the points reduction and US increase will change their results at all. I think the Avatar has promise if I can plan ahead a bit more. He isn’t paying for a breath attack, so you just need to get him into combats, and with the 50mm base, he can be hard to get to. I plan on running him a few more times for sure.

…And speaking of 50mm fliers, I took my Kingdoms of Men and my favorite flying Generals out for a spin for a weekday game. Battle 048 can be found here.

Battle 048
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I was expecting the Northern Alliance to explore Frozen more, but they had a Cavern Dweller, Frostfang Cavalry, and a nice combined arms list instead.

I took an odd list featuring three infantry hordes, trying to force the issue and test out the ASB + Lifeleech change, since I had been unable to get any examples in any of my recent KoM games. As-ever, there were some suboptimal plays due to me being unfamiliar with the new list, but this was definitely one of our more dynamic games! @Cartwright has been extra generous with his time recently, so an extra big thank you to him for fitting this in!

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163

Good game!

I really enjoyed the cavern dweller. I haven’t used them much, but Def 5, 16/18, lifeleech(3) means it’s a fun one to run out front and force you to react to. He ate the first charge, pinned you down while I killed off the knights, and then healed himself over time. Fun unit you’ll see more of.

This was a sloppy game on my part. I shouldn’t have moved the trolls within the fanatics wild charge range, and the multiple rear charges were mistakes I shouldn’t have made (or at least anticipated rather than relying on luck).

I liked your fanatics. -/22 means I can’t readily shoot them off, and they pack a serious punch in combat. They’re much scarier than the regiments, which I feel pretty good about shooting off.

I wonder about militia regiment spam to serve as cheap chaff? Backed by fanatics to do damage. It’s kind of what I’ve tried to do with the villein penitents and paladin monster slayers.

And yep, I’ve been a secret blogger for some time now. For me, I enjoy games as a way to generate data for my real hobby, data analytics :joy: I enjoy testing out common wisdom that strikes me as wrong (eg, “hitting on 4s is so swingy.”). Or thinking about gladiator vs bricklayer models of list building. If anyone is similarly interested in data analytics applied to KOW, feel free to check out Data & Dice.

For the bolt throwers, in real world play their 25-median-75 quartiles for damage are 3-4-7 over 15 plays. For 80 points, I think their value comes from (1) forcing engagement so you can’t delay, (2) reaching out at game end to hit wounded units, and (3) synergizing with blizzard as extra range output. I’m not sold on them but wanted to play around with it some.

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