Wild game, gents! So many rear charges O_O Note that individuals don’t automatically turn their front arc to charging enemies, they have flanks just like every unit, so ensnaring individuals still need to be positioned front-on if that’s the goal.
On the Mans list, I’m left wondering what you did like, apart from the GOWBs and the Militia Also, you’ve got plenty of points in items to give that mindfog ASB a better spell (windblast or lightning bolt specifically). I appreciate going harder into the lifeleech to see what you can get from it, but obviously remembering that it exists is key
Yep, we have been playing that wrong. I think the great Sceleris alerted me on FB as well. Definitely overdue for a rules reread! Thanks for letting me know.
Yeah, the list was a bit too unwieldy for me and I was not vibing with it. I haven’t really internalized how to use infantry hordes yet, and nothing really got good combined charges, so the mans struggled. Fanatics were ok, and I liked Fearless, but they are so expensive that two hordes is probably too many in a list. I’ve seen them as a bit of a one-off kamikaze unit with something like Blood of the Old King, and that may be something to try in the future. It was an unusual list for me. A bit of a “miss” this time, but I want to try and run some more unusual things in 2024, so expect to see me branching out like this and experimenting a bit more.
A newer player was down for a game over the weekend. I wasn’t planning on running them again so soon, but I really like bringing the humans out for first games, as there isn’t a lot of rules complexity to them, and so there aren’t many “gotcha” interactions. Battle 049 can be found here.
My opponent’s list was borrowed. It was a little character-heavy, but pretty solid, and with plenty of cool picks for me to take notes on as I try to figure out my own Undead. My list was more typical for me, with Giants, and flying Generals and such. My dice ended up being a bit cold, and I forgot a few clutch special rules that would have helped, but it was still a great game!
I wanted to try a Wind Blast Wizard and a Pole-Arms horde. With the former, the spell just wasn’t landing, and the pushing angles were not impressive from a single infantry spellcaster anyways. They might be better on a horse and manipulating early long charges. The latter intrigued me as a kind of “fighting tar pit”, but didn’t get the prolonged combat I was hoping for to see how they worked, and I’ll need to try them again sometime.
It was quite (coincidentally) thematic with the humans stepping back in terror the 1st couple rounds, before catching their resolve and chasing the undead abominations across the field.
Unfortunate for your opponent to have such limited list building options, but impressive he managed to take knowledgeable on a liche king. As you noted, they dont need it, but more importantly, its not even a listed option to take!
Morgoth just face tanking that hex was probably the most surprising bit.
You definitely seemed to favor stalling the mid and weighting the flanks. Which can seem to get you in trouble if a flank stalls and cant meet up with your mid board units in time. The general definitely pulled his weight with being a little bit of everywhere you needed him.
Positioning war machines can be a struggle. Sticking them off in a corner has led to terrible line of sight issues, so I had started placing them opposite the first infantry horde I see… which my opponents have tended to deploy centrally, which in turn leads to the weighter flanks you note. I’d like to get batter at deploying battle groups, but the “double envelopment” is classic strategy, and well-suited to the Flying Generals.
Morgoth just face tanking that hex was probably the most surprising bit.
Yeah, Hex did not deter my opponent at all! Line of Sight was a hurdle for the ASB, but the spell landed pretty consistently, and not once did my opponent second-guess himself. Had things been going slightly better for me I could have charged some casters, but that was not the case. Mhorgoth ended the game at like, 2 damage, having regenerated a bunch and healed himself with an odd Drain Life. I wasn’t able to punish the greedy face tanking, so it worked out for my opponent here.
…and up now is the first of two recent games against @Cartwright. Battle 050 can be found here, with the Herd facing off against the Abyssal Dwarfs in the classic Invade scenario!
My list had four Scorchwing regiments, plus a bunch of things with Scout, including two Tree Herders. It was an older list that I just wanted to see hit the table so I could explore Scout more before moving on with other Herd ideas. The list worked ok for movement, but I don’t think I had enough hammers.
My opponent had a more balanced force, with some war machines and infantry blocks and even some chaffy Gargoyles. But he was most interested in exploring the Supreme Iron-Caster on his titanic mount, and some Abyssal Halfbreed regiments, whose proximity can boost the Caster’s spellcasting.
It was an interesting match-up and a good back and forth game. I had a great time. Thanks to my opponent for fitting this in!
This was a tough match-up. With The Herd, you don’t have many things to deal with high defense, esp with all the healing and regen I had around. I think you needed to get a bunch of double charges, get perfect rolls, and take units off in one go. That didn’t really happen, and with the Ironcaster blasting fireballs at will at low-defense Herd units, you didn’t have many answers. Maybe a scenario that needed more mobility would have played to your strengths, but the combination of match-up and scenario made this an uphill battle for you. Even so, this was a close game that was competitive throughout.
I really liked the the halfbreeds vs your list. They’re fast enough to outspeed infantry and with regen can shrug off chip shooting. They’re enough of a hammer against low defense units but probably need a double charge against tougher opponents. I’ll try to talk my son, C, into taking them, but he loves his vision of waves of immortal guards lumbering forward, regardless of efficacy. Thanks for making the trip out!
Wild game! Thanks for the report! And I dug both armies being used. I agree with @Cartwright that the Herd need some can openers, even if that’s just bane chant on the Gladewalker (you can use her item slot for Lute, and yes, the BC can be double cast on the Shamblers if you were in position to buff them both - although I am very down on BC2 at the moment, especially on an expensive caster who has other things they could be doing, because it seems to fail all the time for me right now).*
I am wary of over-investing in the Shamblers, since they’re very mediocre hordes (bad at fighting, bad at living, decent at scenario). I had extremely middling success running a go-wide scouting Herd army when I first began, almost entirely because Shamblers are not good. I think even buffed to the gills (+1 CS, +1 Me, elite/vicious) they still aren’t good. The difference here is that I didn’t have access to Scorchwings, which give some hammer against the anvil of the Shamblers, plus shooting to keep the enemy occupied when the Herders are being kept out of charge range (because those guys definitely slap!)
*I’d like any number of items on the Gladewalker tho, like +6" range or scouting boots or so on, but man, this list is tight on points. Maybe dropping the Hunters to troops and admitting that they’re there to chaff mostly?
EDIT: NM, the Silent Hunt doesn’t unlock
EDIT2: You could drop the Gladewalker’s surge to buy her a Lute. I think she’s unlikely to surge a Shambler horde that’s scouted so far away from her, and the Herders both have surge anyway that is otherwise going to be unused. Surge(16) to support two Shambler hordes seems fine.
Solid points @Boss_Salvage ! The Herd seems under-represented online and I was curious what you make of these games.
The Forest Shamblers were definitely fun with Scout, but I’d agree that they are not that impressive otherwise. They felt like a bit of a larger version of the Hunters of the Wild… which isn’t a flattering comparison. They are fine at taking up space, but aren’t really excelling in any role. The Gladewalker Druid was cool, but overall there was a lot of points invested in this group which didn’t preform super-well in either game. I took Surge as a bit of a default option, but that’s a great suggestion on giving her the Lute though; I missed that interaction.
I was surprised at how well the Halfbreeds did @Cartwright! I have tried out the Abyssal Horsemen several times before, and they never seemed worth it. The Halfbreeds have +1 to Nerve, but Def4, so I was expecting much the same. They did get a fair amount of babysitting from the Supreme Iron-Caster, but also really surprised me both games. I just could never do enough to burst a unit down and they worked really well.
Shame they didn’t toss 'em this game, but C could maybe give Blacksoul + Mastiff spam a try too? to keep with the infantry-centric approach?
The Herd brought a list packed with legendary things, including the Avatar of the Father, the Wiltfather, and the Silent Hunt. Scorchwings were reorganized into hordes, in the hopes they could take less brainpower to maneuver.
The Abyssal Dwarfs swapped out chaff and war machines for for a pair of melee-focused Obsidian Golems, hoping to endure charges and then grind the Herd out.
While I enjoyed trying the big Scout list, it was a bit gimmicky, and actually felt better about this second list. The dwarven armor proved quite strong though, and my lack of hammers would make this another difficult match up.
It was great to get these two older lists tested out finally. I definitely learned a lot, and will be retooling some stuff for the future! As-ever, a big thank you to Cartwright for fitting in these games and for hosting!
This was a closer game than the final score indicated. You thoroughly outplayed me on your right, my left. My grotesques were slow and out of position, and I couldn’t do anything without risking a double charge. Your avatar had a good chance of taking off the halfbreeds, at which point you roll up my flank with a unit that can punch. Unfortunately he whiffed, got grounded, and then killed, and then I was free to focus on grinding down the rest. Notwithstanding the score, you definitely outplayed me here–but those are the breaks when we roll dice.
I do like the big lord on beast. Radiance of life plus a free heal after fireball paired with regen and high defense is a nasty combo. I don’t think it’s worth keeping him near my abominations just for an extra few dice, but it’s a fun gimmick to try. As I said in this army review: https://dataanddice.com/abyssal-dwarf-army-summary/ I think we’re going to see a lot more Abyssal Dwarf armies this year.
Sucks, as I’ve been working on an AD army for years now and was going to finally finish it. Might still do as of course it will be weirder than most AD lists, but I really hate accidentally finding myself on the bandwagon when a bad thing becomes a popular thing. On the flipside, everything I’ve been working on is better!
Anyway, thanks for another report so soon!
I too was holding out hope that Herd speed and control of half the board would end up in a surprise upset victory for our blue heroes. But the end came crashing down with rear charge after rear charge and that was all (s)he wrote That charge by the Father that yielded half the damage it should have was pretty heartbreaking, I had high hopes when you spotted that nice little flank spot away from the Grots. And in other news, Wilt Daddy continues to be the business
No comments on the list this time, apart from duelist on Softhoof probably not being the best. I gave her piercing arrow in my tinkering but you could give the other Shamblers mead? Means they could first turn charge after a 12" scout as well.
Yeah, the Herd had a great start, but dice are indeed dice! The Avatar hasn’t had a good outing yet. I think running both the Wiltfather and the Avatar was probably a bit too much for this list. I’ll probably need to try them separately in the future. Still, a great time with lots learned.
I was impressed as well. We don’t normally praise a titanic flier, nor see one actually casting spells, but he put in work both games. Will be neat to see what he gets up to in the future.
I mean, in the greater Milwaukee area, I think you are 1 of 3 people with the army? We’ll definitely be seeing more of the evil stunties this year.
I had all but sworn off double Forest Shamblers… but one with Mead and one with Haste for some potential Round 1 charges is just dumb enough to test out sometime. Thanks for putting that in my head @Boss_Salvage! And point-for-point, Piercing Arrow is probably the better call, and would make Softhoof more reliable. I greatly appreciate the item suggestions, as magic and magic items are a bit of a blind spot for me.
I was lucky enough to get in a surprise game recently against @Cartwright! Battle 052 can be found here.
I decided to try out an odd Undead list idea, featuring two Burrowing Undead Wyrms and one Flying Undead Wyrm, and a variety of supporting units.
The northern Alliance fielded a number of units typical for my opponent’s newer combined arms approach, but was also running Hrimm and a Lord on Chimera.
There were a lot of titans on the table, and some even got to fight each other! Dice were dice, and the tempo swung wildly back and forth all game and kept us guessing. The Wyrms had some neat interactions with the recently buffed Undead ASBs, and I liked them overall, though three may have been too many for one list! As-always, a big thank you to my opponent for fitting this game in!
I had the cool opportunity to plan an Abyssals mirror-match the other day. Battle 053 can be found here.
My opponent had what I would deem a very sensible list with the Manifestation of Ba’el, and hordes of Molochs and Lower Abyssals supported by Warlocks. It also had a Legion of Succubi Larvae, as well as the Fiendish Ambush formation, which seemed like more unique picks.
I on the other hand, sought to explore some “regiments-maximum” MSU play, with Fiends, recently discouned Abyssal Guards and Flamebearers, as well as our buffed Harbinger/ASB.
We barely had any overlapping choices so it was really cool to see two very different approaches to the army and so many different units on the battlefield! I had a great time and the game gave me lots to ponder.
Unfortunately, I had two significant errors early on that my opponent seized on. Add some very mismatched dice to that dire situation, and I couldn’t claw my way back into the game. Still, ya gotta start somewhere and I learned a lot about MSU and the Abyssals, and am eager to try them out again. I don’t think it’s a competitive style as it should struggle against Def6 or enemy shooting spam, but it was fun to play around with!
Really fun game, pretty great how different your two armies were, despite being the same faction. I’m also a big fan of SV’s new Abyssals, having watched it develop over on his blog, so particularly nice to see it in action. But also WOW did it feel like a lot of snake eyes happened this game, as well as very underwhelming dice
Looking forward to the Abyssal refresh later this year myself, there are some entries that have felt so blah all edition - Despoiler Champion being the top of that list for me. We’ve seen this unit type be revamped for both Abyssal Dwarfs (the Grotesque Champion had a major glow up in COK, mutating into an actual monster-hero and not an uninspiring (pun-intended) nimble scorer) and Ratkin (the Night Terror dropped from hero to monster and gained rallying), I have to assume it’ll get worked over one way or another. The Abyss list lacks a cheap monster, so I could see them going the Ratkin route, especially as the Warlock is already a nimble, scoring, tall, square hero so adding a faster, taller, fightier version might be a little redundant? What I’m saying is, I have some tall demon lads on 50mm that I wish had decent rules
Agreed @Boss_Salvage. I like my Despoiler Champ mini, but it’s probably not a great buy, especially comparing it to something like a Snow Troll Prime even. I took him for another outing, and didn’t use him particularly well, and he didn’t have the best of times. It’ll be neat to see what they turn him into with the update!
And that transitions us into the latest game! Battle 054 can be found here, with the Abyssals facing off against @Cartwright 's Brothermark, who left all their horses in the stables this game. I made some tweaks to the previous MSU Abyssals list, swapping in a few new things to explore through that lens.
Abyssal Horsemen out // Chroneas in! I just can’t seem to grok the Horsemen. The Chroneas has less unit strength, but was way cooler and easier to use. I liked it a lot.
1 Abyssal Guard regiment out // 1 Succubi regiment in! I was less impressed with the Succubi. I like a mix of units, and the stock Succubi, Flamebearers, and Abyssal Guard are all 150 points now, which should be fun to mix-and-match. I think they would be great against infantry shooting blocks, or objective-camping Zombies/Draugr/Militia, but they cost twice the points of those units, so should be taking them out. They just seemed so fragile on the table. More testing is needed here!
I had a great time and it was a close game. It is always a pleasure squaring off against Cartwright, so a big thanks to my opponent for fitting this in!
Also, you’ve got plenty of points in items to give that mindfog ASB a better spell (windblast or lightning bolt specifically). I appreciate going harder into the lifeleech to see what you can get from it, but obviously remembering that it exists is key 
