Ronnie spills the beans on Counter Charge

Rob and Croger interview Ronnie and he tells a lot:

Summary of things I can be bothered to type out:

  • New book shipping early!
  • Mantic’s current focus is to “recruit” new players.
  • Uncharted Empires was kept separate in case of legal issues regarding copyright. Mantic are no longer concerned.
  • Vanguard has not been the entry point that Mantic hoped, ambush is to fill that role.
  • 6 “ambush sets” coming that contain “a little box of minis” (on plastic sprues), include unit bases and a premade list in the “app”.
  • The app is a website (subscription based) that will primarily be an army builder and also host a living rulebook, “math hammer” calculator, tournament organizing software, will allow Mantic to collect data and publish rankings. Intended to be for all Mantic systems.
  • The app likely to make EasyArmy obsolete, Greg says he’s OK with that.
  • Mantic planning to revisit Vanguard in the long term.
  • Halfling and Rift Forged Orcs coming for Vanguard.
  • More narrative focus on “The Void” coming up (NA, TK and NS), including in the new Twilight Kin, in next year’s CoK.
  • New plastics for night stalkers coming with TK release, definitely butchers.
  • 4th edition will come later due to recent rules development and releases.
  • Desire within Mantic to to “get rid of” miniatures on integrated bases and redo legacy armies, but only after short term goal of “completing” several armies (Trident Realm given as example).
  • Dwarfs riding giant ravens coming for Northern Alliance and probably Free Dwarfs (crossover between dwarfs from NA and Free Dwarfs expected).
  • Trident Realm coming to Armada next year.
  • No intention to consolidate armies, for lists that add to the “Story of Pannithor” at least.
  • Ophidia and another army definitely coming eventually.
  • “Whole other section of the map” being revealed “at some point in the medium to distant future”.
  • Mantic looking at stls for upgrade kits and models that are not viable for them to produce commercially (resin models are expensive to make). Buying physical plastic kits are expected to remain more appealing than 3D printing your own.
  • Modular Sci-Fi trees coming soon. Neoprene area terrain planned.
  • Rebs coming for Firefight next year.
  • Deadzone is doing well and will share a book with Firefight.

Appreciate the summary! Lots of healthy changes in the works across the board.


Vanguard skirmish type games are fun but i think my favorate of those kinds of games is probably the original necromunda. The rules were pretty simple, the games were fast paced, and it was fun keeping up with your gang.

Anyway, Vanguard is a bit too complicated and cumbersome for me. I do hope when they revisit it will be a bit easier with less clutter etc.


Hearing Northern Alliance mentioned is good, but hearing that they’ll be getting Dwarves on Crows and not Huscarls for economic reasons… I mean I get it. But what am I supposed to do for Huscarls? Are there plans for Huscarls? Will those get made? No word yet.

I do like the news about the app. Full time in house development is exactly what is needed. A proper system not a paid-yet-part-time compromise.

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some thoughts on Vanguard:

a small Skirmish game is an entry to the Setting itself, but not into and R&F game, simply has you don’t have the troops to upgrade
if you have a skirmish Warband of 10 models, you want them into your other game, but even with regiment bases, it does not work because you don’t have 10 times the same model but many different ones

an entry level game for a large R&F game is a small R&F game, hence Anbush is the right thing to get people into Kings of War
but Vanguard is the right game to get people into Pannithor, and while it needs some updates, it is a good game that should stay

that people request a simpler, Deadzone like game, this can be Dungeon SAGA, make it a Fantasy Deadzone with Hero focus that could played solo, coop or versus other players (and Vanguard stays as Warband Skirmish)


thanks for the summary!

what kind of integrated base are we talking about?

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The round bit that fits into the Mantic plastic bases.
Like on elves, dwarfs, skeletons and zombies.


Huscarls possibly covered by this?

“Mantic looking at stls for upgrade kits and models that are not viable for them to produce commercially (resin models are expensive to make). Buying physical plastic kits are expected to remain more appealing than 3D printing your own.”


It didn’t come up, but it’s not like Ronnie gave an exhaustive list either.
With Northern Alliance getting attention, plastic butchers mentioned and the next narritive “event” involving NA, NS and TK; it seems likely that both NA and NS will be getting some issues addressed.

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Flying Free dwarfs and Norther Alliance cross over works for me, but i have a good amount of NA and Free Dwarfs, and a big Raven too, so i might be a tiny bit biased.


Oh yeah STLs, the solution to models not being available in plastic! I hope by that time there’ll be a print service in my country that isn’t 1: industrial scale only or 2: just some guy in basement. Hell I would rather buy the Vanguard PVCs if Mantic would just sell the bastards.

And Ronnie did mention how doing a kit with resin upgrades would be economically unviable, as a reason why some sets just won’t happen. Maybe he didn’t mean Huscarls, but what else could he mean? Half-elves? Same story! Seems to me like making a plastic kit happen would be the most reasonable but given that we’re now seeing even more new armies planned and spoiled…

Yeah. Maybe they’ll finish NA. Maybe Huscarls just get to live in limbo forever. Who knows at this point!


As Vanguard RC lead, I’m personally pretty biased towards how Vanguard plays now. I love the game. The fact that some aspects are a bit complicated/convoluted is acknowledged though, and if I get the opportunity to contribute to a V2 will certainly be something I’d want to help shape into a bit leaner/smoother mechanics. What I wouldn’t want though is a “fantasy deadzone”. That’s probably too streamlined for my tastes, as I love the tension of meaningful decisions from a range of “no one best option” that you can get in Vanguard.

The narrative aspect is my favourite, really. Building up your characters over multiple missions, getting those emotional attachments. The histories of their escapades. The in jokes and grudges. I played all of Rangers of Shadowdeep over the last 18 months or so with a few friends, and while co-op rather than versus, it was the shared narrative with some friends, good times had together, that really made the experience shine. If Vanguard can get a group of friends together regularly, share adventures, laugh as the dice gods send their 8-train into the station, and get those players eager for the next session to roll around, I’ll be a happy camper.

There’s a ton of feedback the past and current RC have collected from the community, and discussed with ourselves, playtesters, and Mantic. When V2 does find space in the Mantic development cycle I’m pretty confident it’ll be able to step up from a good game loved by some, to a great game loved by many.


With Ambush filling the “introductory version of KoW” role, I think that there will be less reason the make Vanguard something simple.
Having Vanguard as game in it’s own right is much more sensible.

I’m personally growing less keen on crunchy games though and would love a KoW derived game in the vein of One Page Rules’ “Age of Fantasy; Skirmish”.

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What? Necromunda having simple rules? Have you ever knocked a model off of a building with a scattering grenade throw? Lot’s of dice rolls for little to no effect.
Vanguard isn’t very clean, but plays way more fluid than Necromunda or Mortheim.
I hope they don’t change too much. It needs an overhaul, but I hope they leave the core mechanics mostly intact. Give it it’s deserved place. Vanguard is a game for KoW players, already owning lot’s of models, not for new players. And as Ronnie mentions, it excells in narrative play.


Uh, no, just no! DS is a dungeon crawling boardgame. Leave it there and improve it further. You posted it before, I thought you were joking😳


What is a “sci-fi tree” and how does it compare to a fantasy or contemporary tree?


Sci Fi Trees may have teeth and may try to eat you? :wink: (Heard something along those lines in the pod as well. There s some venus fly trap lole thingy supposedly amongst other things :sweat_smile: )


Great summary. Though you missed the talk about the historical book. :slight_smile:

Keep in mind that there is a podcast and a video of the conversation. So if you watch the video Ronnie actually shows the trees. There were some “jungle” style trees, including one which has a giant Venus fly trap in it. The trees are part of a larger project to bring out a large set of sci fi scatter terrain


Thanks Rob!

The historical talk had a bit too much maybe to present as news IMO and not something that I am personally excited about.

There was talk of people writing a fan made historical supplement for 3rd edition here, if you’re keen.

Lots of stuff about legendary units and silly spells for big games