I had a chance to take a look at new 2023 TR list in Red Book. I must say there are very little changes. I think RC decided to change thins in a very controlled manner. It looks like they have focused on main rule tweaks and some rather expected nerfs in other armie (Glaestalkers, NS Cav etc.)…
Ultimately, I’m happier to hear this than another round of buffs. As a player, I’m much more interested in making mediocre things with potential sing than I am having my trash babies buffed into the new hotness, and thus uninteresting to a special snowflake like me. It’s been cool to hear about always-taken items being reevaluated - no potion of pathfinder is awesome and bumps up the balance of the game just the little bit.
I really like the Ambush game mode and some of the subtle core rules changes, so I’m perfectly happy with this book. My wishlist for next year probably looks something like this:
- Give Riverguard Sentinel something to do. Scout maybe? It’s completely overshadowed by the Trident of the Drowned Seas Centurion right now.
- Drop the Siren’s cost by like, 20 points. TR is packed full of amazing individuals, so it will always be tough to fit another one in, but Sirens have cool spell lists and enable more play styles.
- Give the Trident King the same treatment, Very Inspiring just isn’t valuable like it used to be.
- Make the Leviathan’s Bane another 10pts cheaper, I don’t know why they think the Enthral is so valuable, maybe I need to dedicate 2023 to finding out.
- Improve the Kraken slightly, the Coral Giant is a star now, and I like the Kraken, but 240 is soooo many points.
- Give Water Elementals some kind of offensive synergy. Currently, pulling off a Surge flank with them just isn’t dangerous enough, so give them, I dunno, Elite or something while they’re fighting alongside a non-Waterbound unit.
- Probably make Riverguard a little better, I dunno, I never play them.
- While we’re at it, the Depth Horror Eternal could probably use a tiny nerf.
Didn’t the final COK of 2E give the Kraken 15 attaks? So I’d say that. It’s hilarious to me how bad my Kraken are at fighting, but they are good at just about everything else. They clearly aren’t bad - before the Coral Giant buff every TR list I faced had precisely two of them (I originally took three but started to branch out to find a better hammer option, which TR barely have any of, so thanks CG for supplying that).
The Trident King being Me 4+ continues to boggle my mind. Pure insanity.
Maybe the deal with our enthrall units is that enthrall isn’t good? A buff to the spell would buff multiple of our most mediocre units. Even just 2" per hit instead of 1" would be a start.
-2 ensnare on a d6 … mh … I don’t know how to say this really, but no that is just not possible within the game’s framework as it is. (Unless you want to see tournaments with only ensnare units.)
And a single model with 3+, 12 attacks, cav speed, shooting options and ensnare… ? Well that one, maybe … but only with a significant points increase. 10 attacks with 3+ appears to be the “soft cap” for very epensive top of the line single models (i.e. Dragons and similar), with rare exceptions. (That rat demon with the unspeakable name comes to mind.)
A good point, and I’d be 100% fine with 10 attaks @ 3+. I haven’t seen a T. King on the table in 3E, so anything is good.
As for 2" enthrall breaking the game, I dunno, it’s a hard spell to spam as opposed to windblast, which is very easily and often spammed these days. Currently enthrall is only really interesting on Esenyshra thanks to Beguilement being able to pull people into combat - and I rarely see her take advantage of this, but then she’s extremely good at other things. The Siren’s 24" range is a nice enough buff but, as noted, doesn’t get her on the table any more often. For me, I think a greater effect (x2) or an added effect (Beguilement) would be needed to make the spell attractive (and Beguilement would do nothing for the Bane).
Boosting enthrall would obviously benefit Trident Realm over any other army, because we can Surge too and have enthrall on non-casters.
EDIT: Sorry, I’m talking about boosting the spell enthrall not doubling down on the defensive rule ensnare, I kept typing the wrong thing
Ohhh okay! yeah ensnare and enthrall, now it makes sense!
I’m sorry, but I already had that horrible vision of Hordes over Hordes of Naiad ensnarers facing off at tournaments and fighting each other to a standstill
Boosting enthrall … mhh might be an idea. No idea frankly how (in-?)effective it would be to make these units more desirable. Would have to face it on the table myself to form an opinion
Oh I totally agree. This list looks great. Gigas might also suffer from disengage rule change.
25 points for Entral on LB? What?! Yeah… Still 2 does a bit more damage than a HP regiment. And can support them well.
Dambusters got half of what I expected. -10/-20 seems a better choice. Horde will not see play for 250 points.
Riverguard - I did Play them a lot. Both mounted and on foot. Regiments. Troops and hordes. Treeleapers are ok. 2-3 Troops can be very useful but shooting meta means minę will see zero games for a long time. Sadly as I really like the idea.
King is nit good. Mini Kraken for 10 point less.
Krakens… Hard to say. I have 3 but did nilot Play them for few years. They are great anvils. Even with 12+D3 attacks they do few points a turn but are super hard to take out!
Coral Giant got even better. I like cheaper options so use GC. But I might give Kraken a chance. Ineesha gives his just a bit more offensive one turn potencial. Still Slayer is better for trident than Rampage.
Enthrall - I was experimenting with It for many months. With surge. Not good. Enthrall raz on LB is insane. I would like to have an option to upgrade banes with this spell. And leave their classic P3. Problem os enthrall is a synergy tool but there is no synergy. I was trying Dambusters and siren and elemental hordes. And GWEs… Did not work.
This is a list I took to a local tournament and finished #1.
This is a version I would like to try out. Switched a Knucker to a NWC. We will see how she works.
Also decided that it is time to finish painting (after like 5 years) my naiad horde to try this one (I will add 2 banes and maby a swarm or two in a 2300 version):
What do You think? More staying power… (would be even better with an Aquamage with barkskin!)
Awesome @MiSiO_1 ! Really well done (and very clean)! Colors really pop on those.
I especially like the shading on the scales and contrasting colors
(Mao) Red Book is almost here.
How do You think changes will affect Trident?
- Host shadowbeast seems to a great spell for Mythicans,
- Leviathan Banes - got 20 point drop (and Piercing drop) in two Clash books… Might see play!
- Dambusters got a cost reduced my 5/10 points.
Also charge alligment can help ensnarers and there is a small nerf to LB NS spam and gladestalker spam which should help Trident too.
Did you know Dambuster hordes cost 260 points pre-BRB? I was reminded of this when making froggy ambush lists yesterday. Even 250 is a ton of points when you also have to give them an item to get work done
With Caterpillar going, units with in-built strider/pathfinder get an effective default buff
Sure I am aware. They can be useful is very specific lists. 7-10 wounds on a Charge is not bad. I know people like easy tools like Drscons but I think Dambusters (especially in regiments) are playable. I was expecting 10/20 point cost reduction but RC takes small steps last few years. Like with Leviathan Bane. -10 (and piercing) drop followed by another cost drop. And enthrall is easier to cast.
Items - poison frogs 5 and mace of crushing another 5. You should roll 1,5 ones per attack sonmace in nit bad. Vicious is better when your spike "1"s but more expensive. Cheaper version cost 260.
Yeah. I was hoping strider Item will be gone too but this is hard to do due to its name and history behind It. But yes. Strider for units with fly, high speed etc with strider were just to ‘easy mode’.
But It does not make Dambusters great. Better but not great. I might get back to using 2 regiment to see how they work. Extra 10 points… Wow…