I tentatively like Kyroqsh. If you can use all of their abilities, they’re an extremely good deal, but it’s probably tough to get that much value in any given game. I think the most relevant thing is how good they are at grounding dragons: 10 attacks is almost guaranteed to do at least one wound, where 4 or 5 will sometimes fail. If your list needs defense against fliers and has Cephalopod and/or Waterbound units, especially ones that want to be quite aggressive, I think Kyroqsh is probably quite good.
The Sentinel is better specifically at fighting individuals, but honestly 8 attacks is rarely enough to kill even a weak hero. It’s also got some interesting utility in Fly and Def5+ Ensnare. Also an interesting piece, though probably needs Amphibians to inspire to be worth brining.
MY second game in Call to Arms tournament. Faced against Abyssal Dwarfs with 130 breath attacks and 6 LB shots.
I would summarize this game as a “below average”. The game was full of failed rolls. I was unable to kill Halfbreed champion with dambuster sentinel and treeleapers for FIVE turns dealing approx. 2 wounds a turn. I was not able to kill Golem regiment with Slashing Gigas and a knucker, I did not do a single wound to a Overmaster with Wyrmrider. Last turn could have been a swing but I have rolled “4” on all nerve tests and did not take anything out (except for halfbreed). And there was not turn 7+ which would allow me to clean the board. Even with all those delays based on my rolls I had a chance to clean the board (all Decimators had 9-10 wounds on them and were wavered!) But it was me rolling and I did not roll for 7+.
It was a bad game in terms of expecting performance of units vs real performance. Luckly I did learn from it a bit. Siren is not worth it. If I want weakness I should take another Aquamage. With Icy Breath (10) instead of surge.
I will post a list I think off for my next round in the next post.
2200 list idea for another round. Dropped Siren, took 2nd Aquamage. Better inspiring. Extra Icy Breath. I also consider dropping 2x 5 point items and getting another Icy Breath. Late game, 20 shots can be useful but is it worth 60 points??
After last Saturday tournament decided to drop WRs (they are useful second line unit) and replace them with another new tool I did not use before. Treeleaper regiment. Why? Well. Few reasons. Next event is going to be a 2100 not 1995 points and I wanted a Dambuster Sentinel in it so I had to downsize something to get points and keep unlocks. 170 points vs 220 is a BIG 50 point reduction for a unit with a similar role. I get lower profile unit with shorter threat range but also more resilient when locked in CC. Sure WRs shake chip damage from shooting easily but are way more fragile in CC. Butchers do 7,5 ish wounds vs WR and 5 vs Treeleapers. And if unit’s role is to tank and roadblock then a 50 point drop off is a thing.
So… My next list still follows the Water+Frogs theme. Inspiring gigas is a small problem but a WR Centurion is usually around to do so. I was also able to order units (price coupon from a tournament) a resin Wyrmrider Centurion (I had a converted metal one but the new one is to cool to miss) a dambuster Sentinel (I plan to convert in a similar manner to my existing troops - jumping in the air) and 10 treeleapers. I already have 2 troops but I want to make a regiment more dynamic with frogs jumping all over the base. New list is a great motivation to add new units for an upcoming Nationals season!
Had a 3rd game in Call to Arms vs Goblins. I do have a screen shots from that game but it was complete failure. Was able, over 2-3 turns when I was engaged, to kill 2 rabble units. One horde and one regiment. And was tabled in return.
I do not want to talk UB rolls as I am just unlucky. Loosing units on 9+ with re-rolls, being wavered on 10+ several times in a raw after taking 1W or loosing units on 11+ was the story of the game. LB and pup launchers hitting above 50% into cover etc. etc.
Anyway. I think WRs are not a good unit. They are always focused down by shooting and they die in 2 turns. Regen/cover does not matter.
New Enthrall is better. I was able to flank trolls with elementals (did 6 wounds out of 36 attacks) but the damage output from flanking is just BAD. I did 1-2W from dambusters, flanked the targeted unit but did not even wavered them. I should have done approx. 11 wounds. I do not ask for a little above average. Just average would be perfect
BIG thing I am sure of is that I need some chipping damage. 1-3 wounds on units I flanks is KEY. I am unable to break fresh 15/17 hordes even if I flank them. Now question is how to achieve that.
Hard luck. Those games do happen from time to time and are pretty frustrating. Not much to be done but remember it’s only a game and carry on. By WR units, do you mean WyrmRiders? If so, I agree that they are not a good unit. I would advise to field them as Abyssal Fiend allies instead: so much better for 215 points for a horde. Of course, you may not like allies, but having painted up a horde of Mantic Wyrmriders that never see the table top, I wanted to find some way to get them into the army.
Well. My plan was good. To Raze my 2 tokens, ignore 2 tokens from my opponent and fight for the middle. But my deplay force got destroyed/wavered before they delayed anything lol
Yes. Wyrmriders. Even their higher nerve 15/17 is not working well with Regeneration. I will replace then with Thuul or Treeleapers. Same with Wyrmrider Centurion. I Will get a Kyroqsh instead.
I will try to play with 1 Weakness but with LB10 instead. This should help.
Not sure if anyone is still following my mumbling about TR list building but played 2 test games at 2100 points recently. One vs Free Dwarfs and one vs Shooty/infantry Basilea. I must say adding some shooting helped the Watherbound/Amphibian themed list quite a lot. Elementals HAS to flank wounded units as they are unable to break Def 5+ 15/17 nerve hordes to the flank in one go. MY average is 6 wounds to the flank. It should be 9. Still not enough. With 3-5 extra wounds on a target - very high chance to succeed!
Tested Kyroqsh - a solid option and a missing Inspiring source. LB (3) did ZERO wounds in those 2 games but I feel condient he will sooner or later hit something. Scout is great if I face shooting.
Mythican (he has surge but does not inspire water… hmm…) with LB is a very cool addition too. Tested a BC one but BC (2) is just to unreliable. Surge (6) seems to be better. Next I am going to test is one less Treeleaper troop and one more NOKKEN horde. I wish people would use swarms in hordes more often.
I see a lot of synergy between Dambusters and Elementals. This is still not as potent as I would love to see it but gives more flexibility than other lists. 3-4 Shambling units can do wonders IF You can control the board and distance between Your and opponent’s units.
General problem TR has is inspiring. This is why we have so many DH spammers. Those builds are simple. You take 2-3 DHEs, 3 DH hordes, Eckter and You are ready to go!
This one I will test in few days. I tried to use Dambuster hordes before but with not sharpness on them. They were not great. 7,5 wounds is just a 1,5 more on average than most Me3+, CS1 large Infantry hordes for way more points. Sharpness allows extra 2,5 wounds on average. Flat average as we have Strider. Still this cost 305 points do a lot! I would add Brutal from a dróg if I had a spare 5 points… O think key to success is to use them in terrain and over obstacles where regular units get hindered.
I wonder if anyone tried a Dambuster horde with vicious for example… Instead of Sharpness.
Got CoK 2022. Here are my initial impressions about TR changes:
Re-printed rules for Enthral and Heartpiercers - I like both of them. Those changes did well in the past year,
Thuul - biggest unit change in CoK. Thuul were inferior to DHs and the still are in terms of unlock potential, damage output and overall durability. Luckly The Hidden Ones gives them some boost. Great thing to notice is that Ineesha has an aura that buffs not only formation Thuul but any Thuul in range. So thuul got Wild Charge (D3) and TC(1) from a Mythican. I finally have a DH replacement option I will enjoy! 2 regiments and maby a 3rd one or even 2 Troops. All with TC(1), 2 with Pathfinder. They can also benefit greatly from a new Barkskin spell and Rushing Tides aura (14-16" charge range).
Leviathan Bane - now sure this unit will see play. small change to harpoon rule (+extra Enthral 1" on average) is not a game changer,
Coral Giant/Kraken - Titans got sume rules to make them different tools. I like it.
Greater Water Elemental - we has a weaker CG. And he still is but he is noa a surgable mini-Kraken. I finally have a reason to take 2.
Riverguard sentinel - nice change but with all that new support casters and Centurion (2.0 Siren in a male body) they might still be a niche.
Naiad Centurion - ensnare+Trident of the Drowned Sea. This is a big change. We needed something to deal with flyers and there it is. Boots of Levitation, +1H or Wings are his best friends.
Siren - Siren’s Call forces a nerve tests - nice. Still Lvl 1 caster so no Barkskin for her. Still a very specific, non-inspiring hero. I fear I will replace her with 2ns Aquamage (Barkskin for Thuul/WRs),
Riverguard - still 9/11 in troops. Why?! Piercing (1) is nice and Me 4+ makes them a nice unit. A Treeleaper alternative.
Oceanborne Naiads Wyrmriders - they supposed to be light Cavalry but they were not. Now they got +1 Nerve and got Nimble. Another very good change! On the other hand we got chanrged for it. 255 points for a horde.
Units that did not get any changes I was expecting to get:
Dambuster hordes (still meh),
Nokken.
In addition - Brothermark go the formation I was hoping Trident will get. TC(1) Elementls.
I believe that the biggest change is Inspiring. This will allow a TON of builds. Shooting lists, combo lists. Alpha Strike lists (I will play Alpha Strike Grind lists myself)… Excited.
I have a BIG mini that would be much better on a 150x100 than the 120x80 it’s currently on (water elemental horde), but Wyrmriders have been terrible for me the times I’ve tried them. The changes are enough for me to give it another shot and either rebase or create a sabot for it - mainly the Nv, which will help the Regen 4+ actually happen
Yeaaaaaaa and man, what a formation!
It’s huge for me, I’ve been starved for inspiring and often forced to make choices I didn’t really want to get a third inspo source. Now I’m finally taking an Aquamage and pumped to break into the new spells (Barkskin seems particularly nice with TR, thanks to low De)
I think Thuul troops are gonna be big with the formation. Nice compact little footprint, solid damage, stubborn to shoot off. They were already one of the most cost efficient damage dealers in the list, and TC1 And wild charge just makes them better at it.
Finally Thuul are back as an option. DHs are still a better unlocks but thuul gives TR something interesting to play with.
I did build a list for an upcoming tournament with thuul replacing DHs (finally an INFANTRY is back in my list). I even started working on a Coral Giant.
Why I like Thuul:
they are infantry (and armies should have infantry units in them),
They are different to Horrors. Smaller footprint, 2 less nerve and no Fury but 2 attacks more and more speed (with some pathfinder). Pathfinder and Stealthy balance lower nerve IF used in terrain.
It is cheaper to take several items on Thuul than DHs. Brew of Sharpness cost 35 instead of 45. Brew of Strength is 30 not 40 and both are more effective. Ineesha also provides extra TC (12" or 18" inch bubble when using Horn item) which can be combined with Helm of the Ram (on non-Hidden One thuuls) and benefit even units like Kyroqsh and Mythican herself.
