What are people thinking their 4th edition TR armies are going to look like?
Thanks @Boss_Salvage
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I’m just getting into Trident Realms and back into KoW. Finding I’m running out of support slots between the big guys and the knuckers.
But your core slots have some great units!
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If I took six core and six special, I could nab my two knuckers, two kraken, greater WE & a coral giant. Might have to accept it won’t all fit in!
Imho TR got lucky. A lot of units still playable and a solid core choice.
We need the exact rules, bit either a jumpy core with Riverguard, a tanky core with Placoderms or a shooty core (with the right warlord) offers plenty options.
And Wyrmraiders and Dambusters in Spec is nice too.
2 Knuckers, a Kraken and something different still possible is not bad.
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Do you decide early on to go no surge/shamble? Or buy in?
Characters seem to get expensive and there are less of them, as you can’t field as much as you want.
So I expect Surge to be seen less, just because you can’t afford it.
But maybe there is no need for it. We’ll probably see less charges to the flank or rear due to Surge (they made it way more difficult), but I’ve got the feeling we*ll get to melee faster and the fights will take longer.
And then some Water Elementals will change some blows with or without Surge.
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Losing ensnare from a number of units hurts, esp with the reduced amount of healing floating around.
The surge book still exists, iirc from the artifact pop, so that is another surge source if you want to go shambling with some WEs and the support stuff.
Depth horrors as core is nice (notwithstanding my first point) as they are a beat stick - although the base size increase is a pain from a hobby angle.
Need to see the full rules for the Trident King, but otherwise Mantic’s nice new model - and whatever we’ve come up with in the meanwhile - isn’t going to see the table at that price!
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I think I got lucky with my own army. The bulk of my old unlocks were Depth Horrors, supported by a smattering of Wyrmriders, Gigas and Thuul.
I’m a bit light on Support though. 0-2 Knuckers mean I’m down one Knucker, and the model I used for a Coral Giant isn’t really a “Shambling”-type model, so he might have to go.
The biggest pinching point for me is in the Command options. My 3x Depth Horror Eternals and Wyrmrider Centurion are all Warlords. So unless I can do a double-Battalion list then I’m only getting one of those. For the rest of the command I’ve got three Champions on hand (Aquamage, Riverguard Sentinel and Siren), they should all be fine.
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I pulled the transcript of the MUP TR coverage today and filled in as many points changes as they mention or infer:
| Unit Name | Unit Size | Pts | Role |
|---|---|---|---|
| Tidal Swarm | Troop | 60 | AUX |
| Naiad Ensnarers | Troop | 85 | AUX |
| Regiment | 115 | COR | |
| Horde | 210 | COR | |
| Riverguard | Troop | 125 | AUX |
| Regiment | 155 | COR | |
| Placoderms | Troop | 115 | AUX |
| Regiment | 155 | COR | |
| razorswords | |||
| Depth Horrors | Troop | 110 | AUX |
| Regiment | 185 | COR | |
| Naiad Heartpiercers | Troop | 115 | SPE* |
| Regiment | 145 | SPE* | |
| Thuul | Troop | 120 | SPE |
| Regiment | 155 | SPE | |
| Water Elementals | Troop | 130 | SPE |
| Regiment | 205 | SPE | |
| Gigas | Troop | 140 | SPE |
| Regiment | 200 | SPE | |
| Oceanborne Naiad Wyrmriders | Troop | 150 | SPE |
| Regiment | 215 | SPE | |
| Riverguard Dambusters | Troop | 150 | SPE |
| Regiment | 225 | SPE | |
| Treeleaper Dambusters | Troop | 185 | SUP |
| Leviathan’s Bane [2] | 1 | 95 | SUP |
| Greater Water Elemental | 1 | 225 | SUP |
| Knucker | 1 | 225 | SUP |
| Riverguard Arbalest [2] | 1 | 100 | SUP |
| Coral Giant | 1 | 195 | SUP |
| Kraken | 1 | 235 | SUP |
| Naiad Envoy [2] | 1 | 105 | CHA |
| Placoderm Tide Warden [2] | 1 | 145 | CHA |
| Riverguard Sentinel [2] | 1 | 150 | CHA |
| Thuul Aquamage [2] | 1 | 95 | CHA |
| heal 3, lb 3, surge 8; lib | |||
| Siren [2] | 1 | 155 | CHA |
| enthrall 7 x2; lib | |||
| Riverguard Dambuster Sentinel [2] | 1 | 165 | CHA |
| Axel Tricklebrook [U] | 1 | 185 | CHA |
| Naiad Centurion | 1 | 195 | WAR* |
| Naiad Wyrmrider Centurion | 1 | 230 | WAR |
| Depth Horror Eternal | 1 | 170 | WAR |
| Riverguard Pond Warden | 1 | 195 | WAR |
| Eckter [U] | 1 | 210 | WAR |
| wind blast 8 | |||
| Trident King [U] | 1 | 315 | WAR |
Points I’m not sure of in italics. I’m still shocked at how expensive heroes are, as much as I intend to make envoys still do something 
EDIT: I am just realizing that the army has no access to bane chant. That’s kind of rad from a balance perspective, and certainly puts more emphasis on order use (give vicious, for example).
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Maybe people get some ideas/inspiration from that one
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Thanks! I’ve used the points they mention to flesh out the table above. At this point we don’t know about Ensnarer troops or hordes, Water Elemental troops, and how much Aquamage’s spells are (but thus far caster spells have been very similar to 3.5E).
Also worth noting the changes to Tidal Swarms. They lost ensnare, nimble, and the shooting option, but kept scout and changed to Sp 5+, Me 3+, De 4+, Att 9, Nv 15, H1 large infantry. For 60 points. That’s pretty wild IMO and, as MUP points out, you can give them the enthrall command to be even more annoying chaff.
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If anyone likes a good fish man horror movie, I highly recommend 2024’s “Orang Ikan” (Also released as “Monster Island”).
A Japanese and British survivor of a U-boat sinking, in WW2, must survive against a carnivorous “creature from the Black Lagoon” type monster.
Definitely made me think of Depth Horrors. Strong and dangerous, and yet blubbery/squishy.
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I’m assuming the costing of commands is the main thing driving up the price of characters. They’re like a flexible set of strong spells that are going to go off most of the time.
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Thanks! That’s a really good coverage of the unit costs.
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Yeah, I’m guessing that’s the main reason although with heroes now being on bigger bases their auras and inspiring will also extend further so that’s a factor, too.
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And they have unit strength - 1 for a champion, 2 for a warlord
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They can also carry tokens and act much more like a “real unit” than they did in 3rd ed. With Commands taken into consideration, they actually have quite a strong action economy. If you count Inspiring as something that a unit is “doing”, this new look at Heroes/Warlords has them Inspiring the troops around them, casting Commands, and Spellcasting/Shooting/Attacking each turn. Some, such as the Twilight Kin Navigator on Skiff, are able to cast commands, make a Dark Kin unit Vicious, and attack each turn. It seems like a neat new dynamic aside from the fact that running 3-4 heroes in an army is going to cost you 500 points.
It has also appeared to me that the spell costs have gone up a bit. Nothing crazy (many stay the same) but when your mage starts at 100 pts and each spell is 30+ points they add up really fast and really discourages having multiple spells for versatility. This is actually the opposite of what I had hoped they would do for mages in 4th edition. Was really hoping to see some spell bundles or something to theme your mage but have a bit of a discount on spells kind of like the old schools or lores of magic.
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Not sure about the knuckers at 225, might just go for the other big guys. I guess their speed and manoeuvrability bumps the cost right up.
Yeah - fast, has nimble and tc3 on small base so really manoeuvrable and dangerous!